Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi Steve,
So, ACT has been working miracles for me in eliminating anxiety which was getting totally out of control with CBT-I. Since I started ACT (2 weeks ago) anxiety and frustration crept in unexpectedly once or twice (in one of them I had a complete melt down) and it wasn’t easy to catch it and practice acceptance. These two times I fell into the trap of “believing” those feelings and found it hard to switch my mindset. The 2 times this happened, I picked up the book and read a few pages and that helped me turn things around (The Sleep Book). It hasn’t happened in a while now!
In terms of sleep, I think it has been much better than when I was doing CBTI. Sleep onset is barely a problem these days. I continue to experience awakenings that can last from just a few minutes to a couple of hours, as well as early awakenings, and light sleep here and there. Deep sleep is included in the pattern too! I tend to get 4 hours of uninterrupted deep sleep almost every evening – after that it tends to be light sleep or a longer awakening or back to deep sleep for another few hours. I’m not minding any of it.
I think what has been revolutionary for me, like for many of you as well, is the feeling of serenity I experience in bed now. That, I hadn’t experienced in so long and just being in bed feeling completely calm and relaxed, letting the mind wander and lightly doze off feels amazing, and to me this in itself is already a victory. If more consistency in deep and solid sleep starts to follow, it will be a plus!
I’m still sticking with a few rules of CBT-I that make sense to me but don’t keep track of my sleep or of all my behaviors in the way I did with CBT-I and that has been truly liberating.
Also, I’m super glad to see my post helped a few of you. Deb, a special thanks to you for introducing us to ACT and supporting us through this. If it weren’t for you, I’m pretty sure I’d still be struggling with severe anxiety in the evenings! Thanks again!
Steve,
I read your post about a “pinging” going off in your head and what you described reminded me of what I experience when I have sleep paralysis. Have you ever heard of it? I used to be really scared of the experience but once I understood it better, the fear went away. I used to have tons of sleep paralysis but since I started CBT-I it went away. With ACT I had one little occurrence, which doesn’t bother me. People have different experiences with sleep paralysis and mine always involved this “electric current” running through my body or head. Very strange, but there is quite a bit of information on all this online, and a few studies done on sleep paralysis in case you want to check it out! Nothing to be scared of, it’s just areas of the brain activated together that usually aren’t – it’s a very unique state of consciousness.
Hi Burn,
I have been making the focus of each evening to “befriend” all uncomfortable thoughts and feelings, to the point that sleep is not even a priority anymore. I tell myself that “the goal” for the evening is to allow myself to feel whatever shows up without any expectations of either falling asleep or calming down. So instead of focusing on sleeping, which is what I used to do with CBT-I, my priority has become to just sit with what I’m feeling. That’s all I tell myself to do: tonight, just feel what there is to feel. How I’ve been doing this:
Because I start getting a ton of sleep anxiety in the hour before bed time, I decided to reserve this last hour to lie on the couch and simply be with all my feelings, sometimes using the techniques from the book, sometimes not. I lie down and I place a hand on my stomach, which is where I feel all of the anxiety, and I “make friends” with it by just allowing it to be there – it’s super uncomfortable, but we might as well feel it if it’s there right? . The first night I practiced ACT I spent almost 2 hours doing this – that’s how much anxiety there was in me! But eventually, after just welcoming it, sitting with it, and befriending all these uncomfortable thoughts and feelings, they lost their strength and I went to bed very calm and fell asleep (I also think it happened relatively fast for me because I have been practicing mindfulness for the past 6 years, so it came more naturally) . Doing this BEFORE going to bed rather than in bed seems to have played an important part in not bringing the anxiety to bed. I did this for almost 2 hours the first night, then around 30 minutes the next 2 nights, just a couple minutes the 4th night, and didn’t really do it last night and was calm going to bed and fell asleep fine. I’d recommend not making the focus of the practice to make the feelings and thoughts go away, but rather make the focus BEING OK with just having them there with you.
I think it takes a little while to get the hang of it but when you finally “find the button of acceptance” it’s easier to just press it again the next time!
Deb, yes! Anxiety diminished about 95%. I’m definitely going through the light sleep stage right now and last night had a ton of it but I was mostly at peace with it. I just allowed the mind to be playful and go to all the places it wanted to. My attitude was “oh, well, it is what it is and that’s ok!”. I’ll come back to report if the light sleep stage starts getting better!
Deb – yes, that makes a lot of sense, thank you. I haven’t been following the thread as much anymore so I appreciate you repeating the information. This explains why sometimes I’m so relaxed but still won’t sleep well. Knowing this now will help me relax into the light sleep if it happens. Thank you so much!
Hi Deb,
I used to have both sleep onset and awakenings, although sleep onset issues were less frequent. These days if sleep anxiety doesn’t kick in, I’m fine falling asleep, which is where ACT has been helping the last few days. So just relaxing into this light sleep should help, it seems. Sometimes I like to get out of bed at least once since it seems to help reset my “sleep system”. I’ll fall asleep into deeper sleep after getting out of bed, but if I stay in bed I go into light sleep for hours. If you don’t mind me asking, what did the sleep doctor say was the reason for light sleep happening?
Hi Deb!
I followed your advice and got The Sleep Book and feel that my sleep anxiety dissolved almost entirely after only 3 nights of practicing acceptance and using the techniques suggested. I also started experiencing light sleep quite a bit even though I was no longer having it. I wonder why everyone practicing ACT starts having light sleep with it? I’ll have around 4 hours of deeper sleep the first half of the night and from around 3 or 4 am until 5:30am (when I wake up for work) I get only very very light sleep. I’ve been waking up super drowsy and tired, which hadn’t been the case in a long time. How long did you go through the light sleep stage to get over it? Did you practice acceptance of light sleep by catching thoughts of frustration and resistance towards it?
Oh, light sleep also happens a lot for me when I’m very tired but not sleepy, so again related to sleep pressure? Have you all payed attention to when light sleep is more likely to happen for you?
Deb, I’m going to check out the book you mentioned! I keep practicing mindfulness when sleep anxiety creeps in but it still comes back. Thank you for the suggestion! How have you been these past few nights?
Max, thank you so much for explaining all the details. I’m not sure if it was coincidence or not but shortly after reading your story I experienced several consecutive nights of good sleep and I’m still on a good wave- so if your story had anything to do with it, thank you for that! I must say, being on vacation also helped a ton as I decided to relax about sleep in general.
It’s interesting you are all talking about light sleep; I recently experienced it after a long time of no light sleep. I have a theory that light sleep is partially related to sleep pressure – I’ve noticed I tend to get light sleep when I either take a short nap during the day or when I allow myself to stay in bed for a long time while awake with a calm state of mind. I think when we stay in bed for a long time while feeling calm and relaxed but not sleepy, the brain eventually goes into light sleep (there’s not enough sleep pressure to go into deeper states of sleep?). Maybe light sleep is the result of a sleep system is naturally out of whack+ not enough sleep pressure? This is just me making up a theory based on my experience, of course!
So encouraging to hear about your recovery, Madmax! I relate to the light sleep state so much, Natasha, and I used to ask many questions about it. The way you both described it was exactly what I used to experience. I’m on 4 months of practicing CBT-I and sleep is still pretty flawed but light sleep is one thing I rarely experience these days, I even forgot just how bothersome they used to be!
Madmax, after how long of CBTI did you notice a stabilization of good nights of sleep? I’ve been noticing I entered a phase where I’ll have about 3 nights of decent/core sleep, then around on the 4th night I get just a little anxious about sleep and when I get in bed I’ll have really bad “conditioned arousal” (heart racing, butterflies in stomach) and then this repeats itself for a few nights until I finally relax again about sleep and then fall asleep again super easily for a few days – I’ve been coping with these strange little cycles. The irony is that before CBT-I I didn’t experience this sleep anxiety, so this is a negative effect of the techniques that I’m not sure how to handle. Does anyone else relate?
Hey everyone,
Very nice to read everyone’s updates!
Karen, thank you for your post and explaining everything, so appreciated.
Steve, so good you’re gotten on a wave of good sleep.
Mac – your positive attitude is encouraging!
Deb – your attitude is always encouraging!
Pam – you seem to be getting some quick results from CBT-I, keep it up 🙂
Seems like many of us are going through better phases – these are so important to keep us motivated and hopeful AND healthy. I’m also on a wave of better sleep, although still with its flaws – sometimes I’ll be up in the middle of the night for a little longer, sometimes have a whole night of light sleep, sometimes I’ll feel the conditioned arousal come out of the blue when falling asleep every now and then but in general it’s been better. No more than 15 minutes of SC needed in a while, which I’m so grateful for. I’ve been staying neutral/positive and even curious lately, which I think adds another layer of relaxation – not taking this insomnia thing so seriously and not letting it control me. For example, I had 1 or 2 nights recently where I felt so much adrenaline run through my body right when I was falling asleep and instead of getting angry/frustrated/afraid I felt deeply curious. My response was: “What the heck? This is so weird. I was sooo relaxed coming to bed, there was no reason for all this adrenaline. Well, alright, let’s get out of bed for just a few minutes to calm down the body”. I think this attitude has been really helpful in falling asleep fine after having these weird “scares”. In the past, if the evening started with one of these “scares” I was doomed and I just knew it was going to be a very long and rough night. Oh, and Steve – I’m starting to notice a decrease in the effect of the CBD oil as well :/. Too bad because it was working wonders, but at least I’m not feeling any withdrawal symptoms.
Anyway, I’m stoping here and wishing you all a great 4th of July with lots of rest (or adventures in Deb’s case! Haha).
Stay strong, everyone! I bet in 6 months we’ll all be posting better things here! Talk soon
Forgot to mention:
Karen – your post was a breath of fresh air! I’m sure it encouraged a lot of us here (certainly me). Knowing that it has taken you 5 months of practicing CBT-I to achieve 17 consecutive nights of 6-7 hours of sleep gives me hope that some day I’ll get there 🙂
A question for you: did you happen to go through a long period of averaging 5 hours of sleep? When did you start averaging 6-7 hours of sleep? Was it a gradual increase? I’m asking because my good nights of sleep (falling asleep faster and staying asleep) never go over 5 hours or so, rarely do I get 6.
Hi Gill,
I have been doing “sleep restriction” for 11 weeks now and even to these days the idea of restricting my time in bed to less than 6 hours makes me nervous. It causes me to feel anxious, which then affects my ability to fall asleep as well as the quality of my sleep. I know a strict SW works for a lot of people but for some of us a more relaxed one is needed as long as you are still practicing all the other techniques of CBT-I. My SW is quite longer than it should be based on the protocol, but it helps me a ton having a longer SW because I feel totally relaxed when going to bed. Talk to Martin about the possibility of having a more relaxed SW so that it doesn’t make you so scared/nervous and see what he says! In my opinion CBT-I is a little too strict right now and there needs to be room for small modifications depending on the individual.
Deb, I do think SR does help in improving sleep quality because like they say, it consolidates sleep. It feels to me that my sleep quality has increased big time since starting SR ( when I actually sleep! Ha). I’ve entered some good days now and it is incredible how different we feel during the day when we sleep well.
Steve, the CBD oil you took was from hemp or cannabis? I’ve been taking 5 drops in the morning and 10 drops one hour before going to bed and have been loving it. I’m much calmer than before, but hope I don’t experience any negatives with it!
Deb, I meant to mention something to you but felt a little hesitant because generalizing or projecting my experience on you might not be the best idea. I’m going to share it now because what you just reported in your experience with ACT is exactly what I experienced back in the day.
I never did ACT formally as I just found out last week through you what it actually is. There was another person here who said they tried ACT but I forget who it was.
In my case, because I’ve been practicing mindfulness and meditation since 2013, non-resistance of the present moment and of internal states are a daily practice of mine. When my insomnia first developed, I used to have terrible sleep anxiety until I decided to accept it and ride the wave (also quitting a demanding job helped). I learned to cope with my insomnia by accepting it. So many nights I would just lie in bed for hours in a meditative state, relaxed, without fighting it with any negativity. I also wouldn’t think about sleep during the day at all. So basically, I did what you are doing now, is that right?
I did that for the whole 2.5 years of insomnia, and here’s my report: practicing acceptance certainly helps with sleep anxiety – it eliminated it back then. There was no more thinking about sleep, no more fear, no anxiety – before bed or during the night. That was the way I found to cope. But by no means did it fix my insomnia. I would sleep here and there but would have the same problem you mentioned having now- I never felt that the sleep was quality sleep. I would constantly wake up with mental fatigue and feeling tired and wired (states I don’t really experience anymore).
My opinion is the following: I think practicing acceptance is an indispensable tool in helping heal insomnia. It’s definitely ONE piece of the puzzle. However, I do think there are biological matters going on in our brain that aren’t going to be solved by acceptance and only CBT-I techniques can tap into them without the use of drugs. For example, some form of SW helps accumulate in our brain the hormone responsible for sleep pressure, a pivotal factor to falling asleep easily and staying asleep longer. Acceptance alone won’t help accumulate that specific hormone if your brain.
This is just my opinion and feedback from my own experience, of course! You might want to try ACT for at least a month or two and see what happens! Could have a different effect for you.
My sleep anxiety returned 2 weeks ago and was very persistent. Because I’ve been feeling some serious side effects from not sleeping well, I decided to start taking CDB oil from hemp – did I mention this already? It’s supposed to help with anxiety and sleep. I started taking it Sunday and already feel anxiety has gone WAY DOWN and so did my over eating, and I have slept well the past 3 nights. Maybe there is something to this CBD oil? I plan on continuing with it for a good while since it’s natural and it seems to be helping 🙂
