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6 hours sleep. Wow.
Funny how everyone’s needs are different.
I’m 56 and average for people of my age is 5 to 6 hrs, as Martin points out in his fourth drip email update quoting much research. I guess I’m an outlier with 5 hrs average, but I feel fine with that.
<p style=”text-align: left;”>Hi Deb,</p>
Before insomnia started 2 and a half years ago, I guess I averaged say 6 hrs actual sleep. Even when a teenager, I was never one for loads of sleep.I regularly used to have the odd night when could not sleep till 2am, 3am 4am even. But it always came in the end.
Then in Sept 2016 I had a health scare which meant a night of nil sleep. Now I have nil sleep nights far too often.
“5.5hrs to 6 hrs isn’t too bad….”
Just received Martin Reid’s 4th day email….Quote from it…
“……..Here’s another thing to bear in mind — the amount of sleep we get (and need) naturally changes as we get older. Here’s an excerpt from an article written by Germany’s Institute for Quality and Efficiency in Health Care. I have copied what they said, word for word because I couldn’t think of a better way of saying it myself (although the emphasis is mine):
“The average person sleeps about seven hours a night around the age of 40, and about six and a half hours a night between the ages of 55 and 60. A healthy 80-year-old will usually sleep about six hours a night. But these are all only averages: everyone needs a different amount of sleep.”
Taking this even further, a panel of sleep experts gathered by the National Sleep Foundation from organizations including the American Psychiatric Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Geriatrics Society, and the American Physiological Society determined that for adults between 26 and 64 years of age, as little as six hours of sleep may be appropriate — and for adults 65 and over as little as five hours may be appropriate.
So, if you are judging your sleep based upon whether or not you are getting eight hours (or seven hours, or even six hours), you are likely setting yourself up for disappointment and more sleep-related worry — and (you guessed it) this activates the arousal system!
If you have been spending eight hours (or more) in bed because your goal was to get eight hours of sleep, I hope you now realize that this behavior is not only unconstructive but — as you learned yesterday — spending too much time in bed will actually perpetuate your insomnia!
My aim with today’s email was to help take off some of the pressure you might be putting yourself under to sleep for a certain amount of time. In tomorrow’s email, I want to build on this and help you feel even more empowered.”………………….
Perhaps for some of you, you worry about how much sleep you are getting without good reason. Maybe with an average of 4 hours you are a bit of outlier. That is me…sometimes no sleep at all, all night. Yes really! Then 2 nights of 6 hrs, then none at all. Average about 4 hrs, but not far off a norm for an old folk like me!
Yep, me too. When I see someone say they only got 4 hrs but must “struggle on”, I’ve said “Hey, I’ll swap ya” in the past.
Appreciate that people seem to have different needs and perceptions though.
Davy, I know, I agree. There are lots of people who think they have a problem because they “only” get 3 or 4 hrs average.
Don’t worry, me and many others are like you. We have regular nights with nil sleep at all and feel awful the next day. You are not alone.
Thanks Deb. I have also had lots of group and one to one therapy including a day course with Guy Meadows lot.. The latter was a waste of time if you’ve read the book.
Ultimately we have to not over monitor. Do the things you should do but don’t be a slave to rules…. And just accept you have this condition and learn to live with it. There is no magic bullet, so accept it and try to move on
I follow a strict SRT and cbt for insomnia programme. I target 5.5 hrs sleep and this is what I get the other nights. Sleep window midnight to 530am. Feel refreshed after that.
Inthe past I found that if I got say 7 hours there was a much higher chance of not sleeping the next night, so I restrict my window to 5 and a half hours. Maybe I should restrict it more, to say 4 and half
Hi All.
When all is said and done, and you do all the SRT and Sleep Control plus CBTI for better thoughts and you still have nights where you get nil sleep sometimes, or less sleep than you think you need, then you simply have to Accept that this thing won’t go away. And you have to do what Deb is doing, mindfulness is all about acceptance.
I have been doing all the right things for 2 and a half years but it averages out at one night in 6 is completely sleepless. The episodes come in waves which last up to 2 weeks in which anything from 2 to 6 nights is a nil sleep night… Then I might be OK for 3 weeks or so, getting 5 to 6 hours a night. I limit my sleep to 6 hours because any more than that and I’m not tired next night, which increases prob of nil sleep.
I hate it but I have to realise this is probably for the rest of my life. And I either accept it or get even more anxious . What do you think?
Mac, I think that is a very astute set of observations there… Also, I think the trick is to also always keep in mind that even good sleepers occasionally have the odd bad night, and so when one comes (which might be after weeks of good ones), to just accept it and somehow try to be cool with it….Not to let it ruffle you…And move on
Good points Mac,
I don’t think it ever really goes away. Two months, two years, whatever.
Indeed, accepting it as part of your life is very good therapy – and linked to mindfulness, very much.
Like you, I have had it over 2 years.
I went 7 glorious straight weeks in late summer and 6 straight weeks earlier in 2018 with no nil-sleep night at all. But it came back… there was no trigger BTW! Both times I would regularly say, “I’ve cracked it, it’s gone for good.” I will never say that again.
So, accepting it is part of living with it.
If you keep practising SRT (though not slavishly), keep good sleep hygiene practices but always remember that if and when it comes back, to then just accept it, say “Sure I did not sleep last night, so what!” and not fight or stress over it, it will be OK.
For my thoughts on Mirtazapine (Remeron) go to:
Kind regards
Daf (In that there London!)
Five and a half hours…. I’ll swap ya!
Guess its all relative (as we have said before) and needs dependent….. (I see some folks here go for three days with nil sleep. Amazing how different folks’s needs are, I guess
If I could break it down to a few phrases…
It’s in our heads, probably, though that stupid pineal gland may have something to do with it… but 95% of it is in our stupid heads. It is irrational, illogical and even stupid. (Though we are not stupid, quite the contrary, sufferers are usually v bright, successful over-thinkers)
We have made it into a big part of our lives… wasting time thinking about it day and night.
Realise the fear / anxiety and repetitive thoughts. Accept in the fear feelings, allow it as part of your life….. your body knows how to sleep and it will in the end… Trust in your body
Practice SRT and all the Sleep Hygiene stuff, but don’t be too much of a slave to it. Try to be a bit like a “normal sleeper”
Try to keep busy in the day. If you can’t, focus on anything in front of you – the pavement, a stick, a lump of dog much, whatever… Be in the moment and try to make this more a part of your life
Think of the good things in your life
