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Delv, I completely agree with everything you said in that last post. Bang on the money… as usual.
Folks, I think you have to just accept a night of poor sleep, even good sleepers sometimes have them.
I never get those nil sleep nights any more, which is great, but sometimes, for some reason (maybe a bit of underlying worry about something), I get less sleep than usual.
For example, the day before yesterday I only about 4 hours net sleep.
But these can happen. The following night, last night, a whopping 7.5 hours net sleep. I don’t expect to feel tired tonight, but that’s OK.
I cant always expect to get my “average” sleep of 5.5 to 6 hours, it can just happen that life is not like that. When a “bad night” comes, use techniques from CBTi to not catastrophise it.Also, another key is accepting it and learning to not obsess about it, which is why mindfulness and ACT can help too (combined with SRT to get you back on track, where necessary).
See my story in the success podcast interview I did with Martin.
Have a lovely weekend.
DafHi Manfred,
Yes I just went for 4 hours a night at first, which worked for me and was heck of a lot better than nil hours.
Everything is explained in the podcast, including the very important bit about obsessiveness. That bit is towards the end I think.
Good luck. David
Just checking in.
These days I do now say I am fully cured from this odd condition that I suffered with for over 2 years.
Sorry that some of you, who have all been a great help to me in the past, as still struggling a bit from time to time.
The two key things that did it for me..
1. Practising sleep restriction. I kept sleep and time in bed and down to 4 hours for about 3 weeks, then gradually built up. Now I usually get between 5.5hrs and 6.5hrs, not that I really ever count it too much these days. I did not worry about getting up time or going to bed time – just slept only AT NIGHT & only when tired. Started off on couch in front of TV. Then after 2 months was of enough confidence to go up to bed when felt myself dropping off. No nil sleep nights for at least 7 months now. I know it is gone for good. Progress was gradual though, so be patient.
2. Realising that I had been through other times in my life when I got obsessed about something. Worrying about sleep was just the latest thing. Once I realised I was an obsessive type and had done this and “been there” before, not only did it really smash the insomnia, but it made me a better person too – more balanced and genuinely laid back and happy. I’m of the very strong belief that many on this thread might benefit by asking themselves if they’ve also been obsessive about other events in the past – and accept themselves. Acceptance and realisation might just be the key to your freedom and getting better. It had a huge impact for me.
3. If you are regularly getting at least 5 hours sleep, but still feel bad, I wonder if there are other issues, such as maybe depression that need to be looked at with the help of a suitably qualified professional experienced in talking therapies like CBT.
4. When things were really bad a little Mindfulness and Acceptance got me through the day. I don’t practice much now – but am generally more laid back. And I found a very tiny dose of mirtazapine helped a little (1.9mg), but is not essential. (Generally I’m against drugs – and the main factors were 1 and 2 listed here).
Please listen to the podcast I did with Martin called, Insomnia Success with CBTis and ACT / Mindfulness – again! The bit covering obsession is towards the end of the thing – but it really was important – I can still remember where and when it hit me. (After a HIT run in our lovely park here in Sidcup in March 2019!) Think God may have directed me, ha! but you don’t have to be a believer to find the answer!
I just checked in here to help you and to see how you are doing. And I wish you all well.
Daf (David)
Still good to hear from you all.
I’m still doing well. Average about 5.5 to 6 hours of actual sleep a night, sometimes a little more, sometimes less. It’s what I need.
As explained in the podcast it was SRT and a bit of mindfulness combined with realising I, like many insomnia sufferers, have a slightly obsessive personality, it was all this that eventually got me better.
When things were bad with frequent nil sleep nights, I cranked sleep amount to just 4 hours a night for about 3 weeks, then built up gradually from there. It’s hard getting up after a small amount of sleep, but I did it. This stopped the yoyo of nil sleep nights evert second night.
And it increased the sleep drive the following nights, thereby eliminating the nil sleep nights.
Tiny amounts of mirtazapine helped from time to time to increase drowsiness too.So grateful to be better now.
How I did it using act, srt and mindfulness is all in the podcast.I wish you well.
I know it’s tough, but I got better – and you can too.
Look at it this way… you have not lost ability to sleep. You CAN do it.
Instead of trying to sleep, just try to rest, use mindfulness approaches, it’s almost as good as sleep,….. on which matter have you listened to my podcast – the whole thing?Kind regards
DavidAh, I see.. your first post said you has not slept for several months. But you are saying now, that you do sleep.
A minor moan I often have on this site is people saying things like “I had a bad night”. And when I ask them what that meant, they may say something like “Oh, I only got 6 hours sleep”, to which I reply, “Well, there is nothing wrong with you”If you sleep for 2 hours, you are sleeping. Just enjoy that. (I would often get nil). And just relax – this can be as good as actual sleeping, if you can stop stressing yourself out.
Also, listen to my podcast with Martin in the success area called “Success with CBTi and Mindfulness.How do you feel next day?
Maybe 5 to 6 hours is all you need. That amount is quite common.Oh finally, if I do drink alcohol I will stick to spirits as beer tends to make me wake and need the toilet. And I do smoke occasionally if out with other smokers, which is a thing that’s getting rarer all the time these days.
I think the key is to let go and lead a normal life and try to not get too obsessed about sleep…Try to be in acceptance…. .. not easy I know, whilst at same time restricting sleep to low amounts and then slowly building up.Hi Deb,
Three and a bit years ago, age 54, before the insomnia started I think I probably got about the same amount of net sleep as I do now – about 5hrs to 6 hours on average.
When I was 20 I think I must have got 7 hours nett sleep. It gradually declined, though I never had real issues with insomnia until Sept 2016.
I’ve definitely read that the ACTUAL sleep people get in middle age is about 6 hours, once you strip out the time they are in bed but not actually sleeping. (If you ask a non-insomnia sufferer they are likely to tell you their time in bed cos they have never thought about it too hard!)
Also, I’ve read that sleep amounts declines with age as circadian rhythm weakens, until v old age (I’m guessing 75+) when it rises again, (for most people but not all).
Sleep amounts are highly varied. Some folks need no more than on 4 or 5 hrs – and can’t get more if they tried. I know you need more, so does my wife and my Mum who must average over 8 hours! It varies. I’ve learned not to be jealous. I can run faster than my wife and read faster, so what! We all differ,
I’m sure Martin can confirm what I say here about sleep amounts – as I’m sure I read it here too.
Also, read that statistically on average folks who sleep 8 hours have an average life expectancy less than those who sleep 6 or 7. It’s all averages, so don’t anyone go thinking they are going to die soon because they get 8 hours!I also have big bags under my eyes, think once you have them, they don’t go. If I was an American actor or broadcaster I’d have them removed!!! But I think plastic surgery looks daft.
Oh I never napped, even when I suffered those nights of nil sleep. I figured best to keep the sleep drive high by not napping. But I guess 15 mins shut eye wouldn’t harm people if done before 2pm.
Luckily I never had 2 nil sleep nights together, like some poor souls on here claim.
You’re probably realising if you’ve read a iot of posts here that some folks think 5 hours a night would be the end of their world whilst others would praise the Lord for 3 hours each night. It’s all relative, I guess.Hi Da,
Well a lot of questions.
In the podcast there’s a link to that video on 7 attitudes of mindfulness which is a good starter for understanding background of mindfulness. There are also loads of stuff on YouTube. Just look for Mindfulness Meditation. You can also attend courses on it, and get books all about it.
Yes, these days I don’t worry about going out late but drinking beer n large amounts of alcohol after 9pm are out as it messes up sleep.
If I go out late, I will always do a chill out watching something light on the TV when I get home. If that means I only have time for 2 hours or so sleep because I have to get up next day, I’m OK with that because whilst I may be a bit tired, it makes it much more likely I’ll get a long sleep next night.
But I try to keep the good sleep nights to less than 6 hours so my sleep drive is high for the next night. But im not obsessive about this. I slept for 9 hours one night 2 weeks ago on hols in Oman, but I’d had v little sleep night before on plane.
And yes I feel fine and fully alert on 5 hours, I think my average is about 5.5hrs. My theory is most people my age get about that much NET sleep, once they strip out time in bed not actually sleeping.Hi da.
You cannot expect to sleep as you did when younger. Many people don’t. I used to get 8 hrs in my early 20s, now if I get 5 hrs average a night, I’m happy. And feel good. As long as I no longer have many nil sleep nights, life will continue to be good.
Hear my story in the Success Stories… Success with mindfulness and srt, I think its called
