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I drove it down to an eighth of a 15mg tab an hour before bed. Still worked. But does make you put on weight.
Gradually reduced to taking every second night, then every third night. Then pretty much never take it now.Dazzio,
If you go to the link that has the interview Martin did with me, you will see a link to my website and on there you will find my personal email address.…and no matter how anxious you might get or how jetlagged…. Sleep will come in the end!!!
Sounds like you know the truth…. that you’ve not lost your ability to sleep! It’s not possible, sleep will get you in the end, no matter how tired you get
Hi Pam,
I think “go with the flow”.
To get better I did initially restrict sleep to 4 or 4.5hrs ish but never held with the ultra strict belief that it had to be between certain times, though I would avoid day time naps (which I think reduce sleep drive, especially if they are over 20 mins).
For me, it meant I was always tired and sleepy the next night and sleep came quite fast.
As time went on I increased the amount up to 6hrs.
As I said before, I try to practice mindful acceptance too.Re Good sleep – bad /nil sleep pattern.
Think we discussed this before.I cured that aspect of it by crashing down my target sleep amount to around 4.5hrs… that ensured I was tired the next night and would sleep. Gradually increased it from there to the normal 6 hours I used to get and now get.
I would try to stay up till pretty tired, but personally I saw no point in really fighting it, so if I was really tired at 930 and unable to keep eyes open I would go for sleep. Then would set a wake up for 2am (well I don’t have to my bladder/sleep pattern wakes me up every 2 hours or so anyway).
There’s stuff to watch on the box at 2am!Then gradually increase the sleep time.
All the while, I worked on improving my attitude to sleep using mindful acceptance (lots of resources online) and see the podcast I did in the success stories.Pam,
Thanks Pam.
Re your “light sleep” it is probably deeper than you realise.
When you wake from a sleep phase, let your mind be “soft and enquiring” for say a minute or so and your mind will probably recall a dream you were just having, showing that you were in fact in quote deep sleep.
To aid this process, I often have some cheese or milk before bed – as I’m convinced it increases dreams and dream awareness. Just an idea to try.
I’m still doing well. Sleeping average 5.5 hours, slowly going up to 6 hours each night.
Slight relapse three weeks ago with two nil sleep nights in a week, but soon got back fine again.
So, now it has been over 5 months with only those two nil sleep nights.How I did it is on this podcast that Martin did with me, If you’ve not heard it already. Listen to the whole thing! Enjoy.
Keep well, sleep well, be well!
DafGood advice Deb.
Re a previous post you made on this thread, if one looks up ACT, the C is for Commitment, as you say.
But I thought it is not about “committing to the acceptance” but rather “commitment to your (life) values”, which is something I always found harder to understand and frankly a bit vague.The original concept of ACT was put forward by Stephen Hayes et al, way back.
But “Dr” Guy Meadows was the one it seems who took it forward in his sleep school in the UK, using ACT/ Mindfulness to “accept” situations – and applying this approach to insomnia treatment.Interestingly, Guy Meadows is not a medical doctor, though he has a PHD, so is a doctor in that sense. But here in the UK, outside of academic staff in universities, few people would use the “Doctor” label on their business cards or to promote themselves. Most people here would regard that as a little “silly”.
That is not to criticise Mr. Meadows, but it’s just an observation. I will say though I found his one day course v poor indeed – just someone going through his book – with some very cheap hand outs. Not impressed. His book is good though and does bear re-reading.
Having said that there is some research that ACT does work to combat insomnia. However, our NHS (health service) does not use it all in – well they didn’t for me. They simply use CBTi and SRT approaches.
I employ both Mindfulness / ACT and CBTi / SRT in my improvements. I can see how some, like you, may see that they counter each other. But my view (hear the podcast in the success stories) is that they can compliment.
My approach to SRT is to just keep my sleep amounts to under 6 hours (though my average sleep is about 5.5hrs) in order to ensure I am actually tired by 1030pmish each night. But I don’t stress about when exactly I got to bed or get up. The target is just 6 hours – like SRT lite if you like.
I also enjoy practicing ACT / mindfulness and will use acceptance and the like to help myself be chilled and rested if ever I cannot sleep.
Hope this helps
David in that, there London
…But, following on from my last post, I guess if someone feels bad after say 5 or 6 hours sleep, they feel bad – and that is their experience, which people with maybe more hard core insomnia should not decry.
But as we know, the average of real sleep for people is probably around 6 hours, you kind of wonder. (As my other thread shows and has Martin has mentioned on at least one podcast, if you ask a non insomnia sufferer how long they sleep for and they often get it very wrong. Reason: They’ve never thought about it too hard and tend to quote the difference between time they went to bed and time they got out, ignoring the time they had some er, “fun”, the time they spent reading, the time they took going to the loo in the night, the time they took to fall asleep in the first place and after middle nigh awakenings and the time they listened to the radio when they woke and before they got up. I Could go on. Expecting to get anywhere near 8 hours or even 7 for anyone over 25 is just setting oneself up for failure.
Mac,
5 and a quarter hours ain’t bad. Average real amount of sleep for general adult population thought to be somewhere between 6 and 7 hours. It is NOT 8 hours. Maybe you are maybe being hard on yourself saying that was “not good” and maybe expecting what’s not really feasible in terms of sleep amounts.
As Deb has said, ACT takes practice, it is not easy. Trouble is its easy to stop doing meditation practice and mindfulness when things are going well sleep-wise. I try to limit sleep amounts so I sleep at least some hours each night, but I’m happy even if I get 3 hours – as are many people on here. (Sure they’d prefer more most of the time they get more, but for many they are just glad to not have a nil sleep night). But if I cannot sleep, ACT techniques come into play for me.
#Why 8 hours is not right is because when researchers ask non insomnia sufferers how much sleep they get, the non insomniacs have a habit of just taking away get out of bed time from going to bed time, usually ignoring the time spent in bed before sleep and in morning reading, listening to radio or anything else they do in bed, also the time it took them to go to sleep initially away and at mid night awakenings when they needed the the loo or other reasons.
Yes, good links. I have read it too in stuff from Martin, that folks who sleep 6.5hrs seem to have lower mortality than those who get 8 hours. Of course, other factors are at play, but it is a point well made.
In fact, when you think about it, the dearth of research about insomnia kind of suggests that maybe its not being studied much because, well it does not kill anyone nor is there much strong evidence it leads to other illness. So, maybe we can all relax and know we get the sleep amounts that our body needs!
Thanks for the feedback. It is interesting.
Some folks who comment often on this site and who are very dissatisfied with their sleep amounts often express amazement (and sometimes actual disbelief too) that there are people who can actually have any nights of nil sleep.
I often say to them that I respect the fact that their feelings of suffering are real. but also something of my own amazement too that they feel bad when they are getting some sleep every night and often averaging about 5 hours or more.
There is a huge variation of thought on what constitutes insomnia – real or imagined severe or mild!!!
