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I also did quickly check out his website. The price is steep especially for a distant session. I think GM only does media and corporate group sessions. I am also sure the first 2 hours is mostly the basics and then weekly emails. The app, book, website and almost every article regarding sleep school is the same thing. Tug of war, monsters, stop the potions and pills and rituals, stop trying to force sleep, accept and be mindful. I think his book has some good suggestions and I am sure many have benefitted but I would like to see the real effectiveness. He shows stats on the site but they are in-house so they could be skewed. For example they surveyed a group of clients 1-year after their one day workshop. There were improvements after a year but I would also assume that a good handful of people would generally feel better after a year anyway statistically speaking. Since you’ve read the book I don’t think there is any added value with any sessions.
What I am “feeling” is ACT to some extent is being sprinkled in by CBT-I providers anyway if they believe it will benefit the patient such as trying to continue to make plans, enjoy life and don’t let insomnia tie you down. I wouldn’t be surprised if eventually there are amendments to incorporate some ACT down the road if it is been shown to be an effective tool in the array of existing tools.
Ill take tiredness over endless anxiety, worry, fear and frustration as well. At least I can cope with that better. I dreamt that I was at Costco lol. I am feeling dizzy and irritable today. I got a block of 4 hours of sleep but after 4am I couldn’t really sleep longer. Sleep maintenance is an issue for me. I wake up and kind of don’t feel sleepy but know my body needs more than the 4 hours. I did find Guy Meadows audiobook online on youtube for free and listen on and off when I have the chance at work.
I hear others such as Christina Applegate who struggled with insomnia for many years and is better. She still does have the odd bad night (like we all do) but it’s at bay. For her as rough as it was, it seems like basic sleep hygiene, some emphasis on wake/to bed time etc fixed it. I wish the basics like lavender oil, tea, whatever herb would have worked. The truth is that we don’t always sleep in the same bed and may not always have that pill or prop available. It can be scary but more often than not, when removed it didn’t make a huge difference.
Hope your husband has a great time skiing!
I would agree that it can be learned and I am fairly sure I am in that boat. A few bad nights, some life/family stress, worry, genetics and here I am. I don’t know why I am struggling.
ACT and exposure is scary but it does make sense that after awhile it looses its power. I did try it last night after waking up around 4am. I felt like I was ready to accept any sensation but the only sensation is not falling asleep. I think the ACT techniques takes a lot of practice and patience.
Although I slept a little longer last night I got about 4 hours. My eyes are red and feel itchy, brain feels zombie like. I feel irritable and burnt out. I just wish my brain could just realize there is no harm, it needs rest and a few more hours would do more good. I am waay past the 8 hours is what we need. If I can get 6 to 6.5 and stable I would be content.
Thanks for the support on my CBT journey. It’s not easy! It’s hard and frustrating and hoping to be able to sleep in until my desired wake up time and not hours before.
Hi Edgar,
Ill chime in. I think everyone is different. Some are able to nap whenever, wherever and for as long as they feel like. As a teenager this was the case. As I got older my naps would be fairly regular. Almost daily but they would be 20 minute power naps which I found increased my alertness and worked much better than coffee. Now that I am having sleep difficulties and doing CBT-I, I am avoiding naps unless I need to and when I do they feel different. It is less reliable that I do actually nap. Sometimes I would get frustrated that I didn’t fall asleep.
What I do do if I am able to and feel really tired is to lay down and that’s it. Lay down and set aside 20-30 minutes. If I lay down with the intention to just lay there, I often do power nap. If I lay down to nap or sleep then I don’t fall asleep and get more anxious.
With CBT-I, there are some that say avoid naps and others that say napping is fine as long as it’s no longer than 20 minutes and before 3PM. What I do is I do avoid naps during the week. On weekends I have more idle time which makes it harder to stay awake. If I do get the urge, I do set aside 30 minutes and lay down. If I dose off I dose off, if I don’t I don’t.
Also keep in mind it is common that those who are sleep deprived to experience sleep state misperception. This means that it is possible that at times you do sleep but when you get up you really do feel like you didn’t sleep. I’ve had my wife say I fell asleep and was snoring but I really felt like I just laid there.
You’re right I was trying different techniques and hoping one would work. I was going from one to the next hoping sleep would come which may be futile. As for staying in bed with in and out sleep. That’s kind of what it was for me. It was deep at the beginning and then in and out, relaxation and sleep. The issue is that it leads to frustration which ACT method addresses with practice and patience. Which is better? light in and out sleep or SC where it’s all or nothing. The concern I had last night is when I did drift off, it was not only light but really short lasting before I was up again. I assume it’s my arousal level being high.
One thing Ill mention is that SC has a lot more years of backing/research behind it vs ACT. Guy Meadows is the pioneer for ACT-I and a lot of what he says in his book regarding his clients do resonate with me. It does make sense to stay in bed, observe the thoughts and feelings as they lose their strength and hold on you. Focus on the senses, the fabric, warm etc. SC pushes away by strengthening the associate with bed and sleep. ACT welcomes anxious thoughts and feelings when in bed. Either approach won’t be a 100% fix but one may work better than the other to allow better and sounder sleep.
Hi Deb,
Glad to hear there seems to be some mild progress in the right direction. Last night for me was like so:
– Went to bed at midnight, fell asleep probably within 20 minutes
– Woke up with drool and definitely feeling like I slept. I tossed and turned for a bit and gave in and looked at the time and it was 2:30. So I probably woke up around 2am.
– Stayed in bed and tried to observe, relax and let things happen. I tried paradoxical intention to try to stay awake but after a few minutes of keeping my eyes open I felt more comfortable with my eyes closed.
– After awhile longer, around 3:30 I gave in and left bed to go downstairs and take an l-theanine (pills and prop) hoping it may ease my mind and help me relax
– Went back to bed and tossed and turned and went to the futon for 30-45 minutes, I am sure I fell asleep but it was one of those in and out “hey you are asleep wake up!”
– I returned to my regular bed and laid there for another 1:30 hours or so and no sleep other than the in and out sleep.
It’s hard to let go and trust sleep will happen especially since we’ve been scarred with poor sleep longer than what is short/acute that resolves itself on its own after a day or a few days. For me it seems like I did let sleep happen but my arousal checking was on last night. Some nights, I wake up, pee and go back to bed and no issues. Like relapses, I don’t understand why some nights I just lay down and sleep and other nights it’s a struggle (it shouldn’t be a struggle but rather accepting).
Hello,
I’ve been doing CBT-I for 4 months now and although it helps keep me on track with regards to condensed sleep, regular wake up and bedtime, it hasn’t been a cure or magic bullet. I get good stretches for a few days/weeks and then seem to relapse. When that happens, anxiety kicks in and things seem to reset. I don’t see another option other than doing what I’ve been doing and things slowly get back on track.
It is very frustrating. The days/weeks that I consider good are 5-7 hours (average low 6’s) but generally I feel decent and stable. The bang out of nowhere just happens. I can’t pinpoint a reason nor should there be a big enough reason to throw things off. Those days Ill get 2-4 hours. Last night was 2 hours until 2AM and then from there I managed to nod off a bunch of times only to wake up moments later. Time ticking so slowly. It’s depressing. Anxiety also carries on through the day like you. Muscles tenser, feeling more on edge, head band feeling around my head, pupils very small, hard to relax, thinking about sleep too much and worrying. It’s all or nothing.
I hear ya. For me it seems to come in waves. Ill get 5-10 days that are stable, not amazing but stable and my overall function through the day is satisfactory. I am tired but generally ok. Then I get a bad day and then it seems to come for a few days in a row and then start to get better. It is discouraging when I manage to muster up just a few little hours and either stay in bed or get out of bed don’t seem like good options.
It is discouraging because the days I do have little sleep I am more anxious, worried, tired, frustrated. I start to catastrophise and go from thought to thought. The days feel so long and just more difficult. What is the irony and paradox is when I have a good sleep or better yet a streak of good sleep I think about it way less and focus more on life and other matters. Then rebound and then back to it. When I read Guy Meadows it really sounds like a lot of his clients are like me or much worse and was able to help. Now I say to myself “Hello thought” or “Hello anxiety feeling”, “Hello sleep thought”. Who knows if it helps but it seems to push it away sooner when I am thinking about something and acknowledge it.
Hello all,
I know it’s been briefly mentioned in some threads but curious if it happens to others often and what is the best strategy to tackle it. It happens where I am sleepy and and get all relaxed and start to drift off and the moment I fall asleep I wake up. This repeats over and over and is quite frustrating. Martin mentioned that it is our checking mechanism that constantly is on alert checking to see if you are asleep or not. Once you are asleep the check says “you are asleep!” and that triggers arousal.
Does it happen to you? Any strategies/tips? The only one I seem to hear is to ramp up sleep drive even more to the point that it overrides your arousal. I’ve been doing mindfulness meditation and perhaps it may help.
Any suggestions, experiences, tips are welcome and hopefully it will help others as well.
Hi Deb,
Had another rough night. By 10PM I was already fairly tired. My eyes were heavy by 11 and hit the hay just after midnight. Took about 20 minutes to fall asleep but woke up around 2:30-3:00 am and relaxing and falling back to sleep wasn’t happening. There are streaks where this happens and I just go get some water and then fall right back but not the past few days. My thoughts aren’t about sleep, they could be about anything but what I find is that once I am relaxed enough to drift, I wake back up. This does cause frustration and hopefully something I can overcome. I did stay in bed and it was warm and comfy. Just when the tossing and turning start happening often, I am more focused about that.
I will continue with it as I have. Last night was rougher than usual but know that trying and struggling won’t make things better. The techniques sound easy but easier said than done. Stop struggling and observing takes time and practice. I need to stop controlling sleep and let it naturally happen.
Hi Deb, it could be that. It is so hard to know. I had a crap night last night and now in the mode of wondering why. My muscles and body felt achy so I decided to take some magnesium power with water in the evening (trying not to tie it as a pill or potion). I did some meditation in the evening at 9pm and after laid down for what I was hoping for 5-10 minutes but may have been 15-20 and may have fallen asleep for a few minutes. I felt more refreshed so most likely I did sleep but this may have ruined my sleep drive. I went to bed shortly after midnight and felt a little sleepy but not as sleepy as normal. It took a very long time to fall asleep, anxiety and mind was high and the sleep I managed to get was in short spurts. Felt like a lot of in and out sleeping, tossing and turning.
I did stay in bed and tried to relax and welcome everything and welcoming it seems to help calm things down. So I am not sure. I did feel like at times to get out of bed for a time out because I was becoming frustrated.
Hi Deb,
I have been keeping a sleep diary for 5 months now and it’s been a yo yo. Overall when looking at it, it’s not terrible. I have had stretches of 90% SE and 6+ hours of sleep per night and felt pretty good. I can’t pinpoint a reason but I do know that when I am just too tired, exhausted and care less and accept (easier said than done) I sleep better. One of the things Guy mentions is to avoid any pill or prop. I do take a pill for now but I was propping with tea, supplements, blue light blocking glasses, watching the time etc basically doing everything I never used to do before. The night I didn’t do any of that and do what I would have before all this, I had a better night. I stayed up and played video games and then brushed my teeth, changed and went to bed. Eventually after a few days things slipped over and over. I still believe this approach is better for me because it makes me worry less overall. I just need to be able to relax and deal with the punches of relapse when they occur.
As you posted:
- Accept that sleep disturbances will still occur
- See your relapses as due to identifiable causes such as stress and not as evidence of the return of insomnia
- Follow the strategies that were helpful to you before
- Don’t compensate for lost sleep – such as taking naps or going to bed earlier
- Sleep conditioning – get out of bed when you can’t sleep (this has been changed to, stay in bed, relax and accept.)
- Follow a regular sleep window
