[Featherly]

Greetings!
I’m catching up on all the posts and grateful to have Deb. Her encouragement and information keep me on track. It is so nice to have someone asking after me. Thank you Deb! Steve clued me into that. It brought me back to the forum. I’ve been with ACT about a month now. It is a HUGE change from where I was after 6 months of CBT-i. I currently have a leisurely 7 to 7.5 hours of staying in bed. I have variable nights with 6+ hours of sleep on good ones (3 times/week), with brief awakenings. I’m much more relaxed and spend significantly less energy on negative emotions surrounding sleep.

After reading the previous posts I’m understanding some of my difficulty though. My nighttime active mind and the fleeting thoughts are considered struggle. I need to recognize it (describe, welcome, accept) without overthinking. Then let it go. I’ve just been allowing it, and it keeps my from deeper sleep (if this is a form of light sleep), on the not so good nights.

I’m reminded to stay on track and use the app. I understand it has some different information from the book. Good to be back here!

[Featherly]

Hi Steve and Deb!
Deb, I see you get out of bed sometimes when you find yourself awake and can’t sleep at night. I’ve been trying to remain in bed but it gets to be very long. I get antsy waiting for my morning wake-up time. Maybe I’ll try reading for a bit…is that legal? When I stay in bed I’ll maybe doze lightly for a time, doing some mindful stuff. But I’m irritable the next day getting under4 hours on the in-between bad nights.
Without an am alarm I get a decent sleep every other night, when I’m not awake long at all. I’d like to break this pattern. I suppose I’ll reluctantly try an alarm again. But I don’t need to get up for work or anything. I just want to sleep better on those in-between nights when I’m in bed awake for hours….really not liking that.

What’s the average time-frame for when ACT helps sleep? Hopefully I won’t have to wait 6 months like with CBT.. Which never did work.

Thanks for your email Steve! That is so crummy that you stayed home for the repair guy and he didn’t show. I gave myself a 6 hour SW. On bad nights it’s to long and on good nights I sleep past it. I have the sleep yo-yo thing going on. I don’t want to make my SW longer because I really don’t like waiting to get up when I’m awake. I wait until 11 or 11:30 to go to bed, which isn’t so bad. I’m good and tired by then, sleeping at least 3 hours before waking the 1st of usually 3 times. On good nights I get back to sleep fast. On the bad ones I’m mostly awake from then on. That’s when the night gets to long. What happened with the phone repair dude? He should have apologize. I’m not keeping a diary like I did before. I just note when I went to bed, got out of bed and guess (totally) how much sleep I got and how I feel. I rarely look at the clock and do better that way. I’m less stressed and focused on sleep, but it still has much to work on.
Right now I’d like to nap…but I won’t…well, maybe just 10 min.

[Featherly]

Thanks for sharing the advice you rec’d, Burn. I need to heed it as well. Deb, that exercise is a great idea. Thank you! I can fall asleep but somehow forget how to get back to sleep after awakenings with the same ease. Steve-if you do a session please share your acquired words of wisdom. I’m stoked to be getting at least 5 hours of sleep the last couple of nights. I’ve been reminding myself of concepts and tools, especially before bed. It’s so easy to fall back on old CBT habits and this seems to help.

[Featherly]

Wow! Very helpful! Especially to be positive about sleep in words and thoughts, even if I’m lying. I also tend to be an over-thinker at night when I don’t have the visual or auditory senses and turn inward… My day time mindfulness is pleasant with taking in what’s happening that moment through all the 5 senses. At night, I’m going to watch for effort, and just letting go, and ‘being’. Do you write down those night time thoughts the next morning? If I had to do that it would keep me awake trying to remember them. If I tried to do it at night it would be to arousing. Not sure I want to do that one.
I think of the urge to turn over while in bed and awake, is a form of resistance to a thought or feeling. Turning over is trying to reset the mind instead of accepting what is going on there. I’m going to try and be aware, when I have that urge, to see what I’m thinking/feeling. Then observing/welcoming/accepting it.
I’m on my 2nd week of ACT and I’ve been meeting my sleep fears face to face. I have a way to go before full acceptance, since I welcome them begrudgingly with effort. (Who wants to welcome being up in the middle of the night?!). But maybe I can lie 🙂 Perhaps Fake it until you make can apply!?!
Ellen

[Featherly]

Questions for the experienced ACT sleepers (anyone beyond the 1st week) … with the encouraging success stories. I,m approaching a week into ACT.

~Please, should I curtail my wake-up time? Some mornings I’m waking/rising an hour past my mental wake up time. Will this lessen my chances for good sleep the next night? Natural morning awakenings are lovely.

~Do you use an am alarm?

~Is it normal/common to feel so achy in body muscles the first week? Even though I’m getting more sleep, I’m tired and O so achy. Can it have something to do with sleep catch-up?, or recovering insomniac symptoms (if there is such a thing)?

I so enjoy the option to read in bed, but darn if I am to sleepy to even open the book.
Thank you So much for any help and it’s so great to hear how you all are fairing.

[Featherly]

Please share your thoughts for establishing a rough sleep window. I have a bedtime down. But I’m just waking naturally in the morning because it’s sooo lovely on some mornings. I’m also trying to figure out how much sleep I need. It’s hard to tell when I wake several times. If I do get to the point where I need an alarm. Do I need a morning alarm? Do you all use one?
For now I roughly allow 6 hours, but I am quite flex on that. Per the book, that’s 1 hour less than what I guess I’d need. It’s so enjoyable to be semi awake when relaxed, and just stay in be in the morning. I do get concerned that the following night may be pay back though. But just welcome that thought and decide not to try to sleep if it happens. (still easier said than done ;/)
For practice and prep for the night, I take several intermittent moments throughout my day to use tools of mindfulness. (Natasha, you asked about this.) I do this by taking just a couple of minutes to notice everything through each of my senses- stopping to focus on what I hear-smell-see-taste of feel on any part of my body. Then I’ll look for any thoughts/emotions that show up that I can practice welcoming-describing-characterizing-giving space- floating with. I start this part with being aware of my breath to put my attention there, and then move to observing thoughts.
After all my hardships with CBT, ACT has been such a breath of fresh air. I just love love not having all the straight jacket rules of CBT-i. I’ve been doing it less than a week and have already had a few wonderful nights (of course that’s compared to the really awful ones previously). I wish I had know about ACT 5 years ago when I started struggling with this.
The mind stuff for ACT may seem odd but the more you practice and experience it the more effective it becomes. Being a mediator helps with the concepts. I haven’t really been meditating though for months, because the CBT-i program had me so depleted I couldn’t.
I’m just about finished reading the book. I take notes because it helps solidify everything for me.
Steve, you seem to have a good deal of fear and anxiety around that surgery. It’s coming up for you. You might want to work on that by taking time (maybe 5 minutes) 2-3 times daily to bring forth all those feelings and then welcome them. It will take courage because it might be difficult for you. Work toward being accepting and relaxed even though it will likely be uncomfortable. Keep in mind they can’t harm you. It may not be the actual surgery causing difficulty, but your emotions surrounding it.

[Featherly]

Looks like I’m not alone in my difficult night last night. I’m prepping for my first ever cruise and all tangled in anxiety about the details. It seems I can also use “special event insomnia”
I’m doing a 6 hour window and awoke up 3 hours after bedtime. I stayed in bed until my wake up time doing my best to notice and work those tools. Although it was nice not having to get up like I did on CBT-i, It was tough being in bed so long aiming for calm while experiencing what showed up. I wasn’t as relaxed as the first 2 nights, when I had better nights. It’s rather a catch 22. When I have a better previous night I’m better at using the tools during the day and the next night. If I’ve had a poor night it’s harder, more of a intentional push. Steve, maybe you should give your current bed/awake time a few weeks. Then you can decide if you want to change it. I’m repeating the book here. It takes a few weeks for the effects to settle so you can see where you’re at.

[Featherly]

Hi everyone! Nice to meet everyone through their posts here. Steve, who I met in a CBT-i program, told me about ACT. What a find! I’ve struggled with sleep for 5+ years. But it has gotten much worse the last couple of years with the loss of a parent/severe family relationship damage, and then retirement. I worked very hard at CBT for 6 long and painful months. My sleep got worse than ever. I’m now starting Chapter 4 reading The Sleep Book. I am putting it into practice as I read it. I’m over the moon with this approach. I’ve let go of nearly all the long list of things I was doing to control and bring on sleep. I’m moving full steam ahead with applying the concepts. Being a mediator of several years helps, but it never occurred to me to use them for insomnia. I’m fortunate to be retired with time to practice. I’m a type A (anxiety, and worry come easy :/) What a difference this has made. I have hope. I no longer clock watch and I am able to deal with the anxious feelings. I find myself applying the tools to unwanted thoughts outside of sleep too. It’s only been a couple of nights but it has all ready had impact. I’ve had 2 acceptable nights in a row. I’ll keep reading. I’m still not sure about a few things, like if a bed/rise time need to be consistent. Mine’s been wavering with this new approach shaking everything up. So glad to have you all to talk to 🙂

[Author]

Posts