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Thanks Deb and Pam for your support. Martin was right, the sleep drive will eventually make you sleep and I probably slept way too long last night, 8.5 hours and of course I feel great today. I found some quotes from the savvy insomniac website that kind of explain insomnia relapsing:
Neural pathways related to new thoughts and behaviors are established as sleep becomes more regular and the bed and the bedroom come to be associated with sleep.
Older pathways active during insomnia do not disappear. Rather, the new pathways—to continue speaking figuratively—are superimposed on the old. With every good night of sleep, neural connections along the new pathways are strengthened.
The older pathways and ways of thinking are still there, though, and due to stress or anything else disruptive to sleep, they may regain some influence. Insomnia returns, and you’re as anxious about it as you ever were. But there’s good news, too: once the newer pathways are established, they’re easier to return to.The Sleep Book does say your brain remembers insomnia, this helps me see why.
Padron1926 – regarding your last paragraph and the constant negative thoughts – in the beginning, it seemed I had a lot of negative thoughts too, probably because I never took the time to really notice what I was thinking. Once I welcomed and acknowledged them, they did not last long, some came back more frequently than others. I also took the time to pay attention to positive and peaceful thoughts and of course welcomed them too. There may have been a few nights I over thought and didn’t sleep much, but I also did not feel much anxiety either. I find its better for me to work on the thoughts and meditation during the day, at night I only do a few moments just to make sure my muscles are relaxed so I don’t over think at night. Also, over a few weeks, stressful issues – current or from the past came up that were unrelated to sleep. For these, it was helpful to fully explore them in a journal. For a couple of these events, I found once I put them in a journal, they were done, and/or forgiven and I can’t feel a reaction toward them anymore, just neutral. I believe eventually the mindfulness practice will help in several areas of my life, not just sleep.
My sixth week into ACT has been a relapse back into no sleep nights or 2-3 hours sleep nights for the last 6 nights. I’m so frustrated as the week before my sleep onset was getting shorter, and overall sleep better. I’m trying not to struggle, but the frustration gets difficult to calm lying in bed. I don’t feel that anxious (heartbeat seems normal). I’m functioning somewhat OK, even attended two tax classes. Anyone else struggling after feeling like they were almost at the finish line of sleep recovery? Trying to stay positive, hoping Martin is right when he says that sleep will eventually come (and sooner than later for me!)
Pam – I think it just takes time. The few stories I’ve read about recovery seemed to take about 4 months. Back in July, just using Stimulus Control suggested by my doctor I was able to start getting some good nights of sleep, 5-7 hours each night for about 5 nights a week for 2 weeks. Then the 3rd week, I started losing much sleep again. I struggled for 2 weeks then decided to try ACT. I’m in the middle of my 6th week of ACT, definitely improvement compared to last July, but not close to normal. I still feel very sensitive, even though not really anxious, from what I’ve read I’m one of those HSP’s (highly sensitive people) and the littlest thing can affect my sleep. Two nights ago I only slept for 2 hours, and last night although I was in bed for 8 hours, I have no idea the actual time I slept because I still have lots of light sleep, and woke up about 3x, but went back to sleep, telling myself I was in light sleep so just keep sleeping.
Still I tell myself that many normal sleepers wake up to use the bathroom, I don’t have to do that, but still it is normal to wake up, so that helps my thought process and from what I’ve read about the amygdala and healing, with mindfulness daily practice it will take 8 weeks for the amygdala (fear and anxiety part of brain) to heal. So knowing I have at least another 3 weeks to go, decreases stress and helps with patience.
I just keep on trying to keep my physical body healthy too as being physically healthy helps with keeping a positive attitude. Exercise daily, vitamin supplements, eat well, and try to address other health issues right away now. Went to doc right away when a cervical spine issue came back, as it causes headaches which interferes with sleep and also had my HRT adjusted as I was getting too hot and sweaty at night, affecting my sleep, independent of insomnia. So hang in there and be good to yourself and hope you will get some deep rest tonight!
hi burn, I think I will still have mixed results for a while too. I’m glad you had 2 good nights, just think of the healing that your body got for those nights. Once I started having more frequent good nights, the bad nights did hit me harder, I noticed I struggled more because the memory of feeling so good was so recent. One night I noticed I was really struggling hard, so I decided to just start over. It was about 11:30pm, tried just winding down again. Got up and went to a different room, did a few minutes of breathing, read for about 15 minutes, then took a warm shower as I felt muscle aches coming on. After the shower, I fell asleep about 30 minutes later.
Steve, after reading so many of your posts, for you to say you can sleep 6-7 hours is amazing even though it is probably due to extra sleep drive of not sleeping the night before. I seem to go through these periods too. I’m glad you are feeling better during the day even after the nights of little to no sleep. Our brains are slowly healing.
ACT so far for me – 5 weeks completed
week 1 – a night of zero sleep, two nights of light 6 hours sleep, and other nights 2-3 hours
week 2 – 2 nts zero sleep, nights after zero sleep slept 8 hours, other nts 2-4 hours
week 3 – more weird lite, fragmented sleep, anywhere 4-6 hours average
week 4 – two 8 hours sleep nights with awakenings, 1 almost no sleep, others 5-6hrs lite sleep
week 5 – still some poor sleep nights, mostly due to other physical things like neck pain and hormone issues. My insomnia/sleep problem is mostly onset and this week two nights fell asleep in about 15-20min, another night in 1 hour, so that is improving. Last night was normal 10pm-6am sleep with a quick awakening at 4am, I was so happy I had slept at least 6hours, there was no anxiety and fell back asleep for 2hours. The biggest thing I noticed about week 5 was that in general I was feeling OK during the day, even on 3hours sleep and seldom thought about sleep or insomnia.There were a few nights when I did take Ambien, but just wanted everyone to know this is a long process, but be patient, you will slowly see improvement and will slowly start to feel better. Don’t get discouraged!
Steve and burn – I am hoping the both of you will have better sleep nights. Burn, last night I too struggled with accepting. Very little sleep. Thoughts were so invasive and persistent, even though I accepted and welcomed them all, and tried focusing on the breath, and to relax muscles, but they would not pass on. Therefore my plan today is to think of it as a new day, mistakes from yesterday are gone and forgiven. I did some journal writing earlier and will do more later. Steve, you asked before if people still name their thoughts. I try to especially during the day so I can work on them – Disappointment, Lust, specific Anxieties, Sadness, Fatigue, etc. I went for a 30 minute walk earlier, and by the end of the walk, most things that came up last night were gone except for a personal issue that came up after reading a previous post about putting your mother in a nursing home. I did this 5 years ago, and it was very traumatic, dividing the family, and caused financial losses and legal issues. After last night’s thoughts, I realized I never really explored what happened, just put it aside it was so painful. So I will deal with that today and am actually glad to accept it now and let it pass, hopefully for good.
Pam – you and I seem to have similar issues with the wakefulness, except that mine is in the beginning of the night, probably due to sleep onset is my main issue. I started ACT Aug 1st, so into my 5th week. Last night I think I fell asleep within 15 minutes of going to bed, amazing! That was about 10:15pm. I awoke only at 4:30am because my spouse insists on keeping his own crazy sleep/wake time. I stayed in bed hoping to sleep again. When he left the house about 6am, I actually fell back to sleep for another 45minutes, even dreaming.
Anyway to answer your question, I think slowly but surely you will have less wakefulness, especially with your positive attitude and keeping up with daily meditation. I know the Sleep book says you should start seeing better sleep after 5 weeks, and I remember the story about Carlos, that Deb has mentioned and he started sleeping better after 2 months. I think somewhere between 5weeks and 2 months is very realistic.
Deb – What you said about learning how to rest, even during the day is so important. I used to try and push through my fatigue in the afternoon, but now since I am not working I decided why not take advantage of this and just rest and relax? I never nap but just try and shut down for a bit and usually find a short guided meditation to listen to and practice mindfulness, and then just lay quietly for another 10-15 minutes, feel your body soften and then remember that feeling when you get into bed at night.
burn – thank you for sharing the information from your session with everyone. I know for probably the first 2 weeks of ACT I was overthinking the process and the exercises, which probably contributed to some zero sleep nights. I guess the key is to recognize the present moment but not dwell in it, let the thoughts drift away. Sometimes it is difficult because I might get an epiphany about something. That is great during the day, but frustrating at night.
Pam1129 – I can really relate to your post about staying positive, even if it means lying to your spouse about your sleep. During the past 6-8 weeks I knew recovering would be a long, slow process, but am always hopeful I will learn to sleep well again. My husband seemed to be getting more obsessed about my sleep than I was, asking every morning in a depressing tone, how was my sleep? Finally, I just decided to say it was fine, I’m getting better. It is great you are getting 5-7 hours of sleep. I wanted to ask, is it a solid 5-7 hours or does it feel like light sleep or fragmented? I’m beginning my 5th week of ACT and feel like the first half of the night my sleep is fairly light, not even sure if I’m sleeping and waking a couple times, going to bed at 10pm, wide awake about 12am, but going back to sleep, then waking again about 3am-4am, but eventually getting back to sleep until 6am-6:30am. I honestly can’t tell how many hours I am sleeping now, but it feels like at least 6 hours.
Hi Steve – I’ve had an issue like Mac0908, getting upset about events, they really throw me off. Overall I’d say I am still sleeping good every other night, my issues were not really the fear of my bed, it is what that is laying next to me in bed that bothers me! To heal, I am trying not to schedule any unnecessary events that would cause anxiety, and made the job search less intense. Just before insomnia I repainted my bedroom, bought new sheets and bedspread, pillows, and I’ve had a memory foam topper to help with sore joints, I find it an overall welcoming place. I know when you have insomnia, changing your bedroom might be considered a “prop” and I know you don’t want to engage in too many “props”, but just wondering if making some small changes to the bedroom may reduce your fear and make it more welcoming?
Two days ago I was feeling so peaceful and hanging with my adult daughter in the kitchen, then I turned to speak to her and she was in this unnatural position, fell on the table and then onto the floor. She had a seizure, she had them all the time as a child, but its been 19 years since the last one, and although she snapped out of it OK, she cut her head and so had to take her to urgent care for a staple to close a wound. That threw off our dinner schedule, ending up eating late, and just throwing off my schedule and this event brought me back into to not being able to fall asleep for hours. I ended up taking a little ambien just so I could sleep at least 2 hours, I didn’t want to be a mess if my daughter was not well. Last night it took 2 hours to fall asleep, but I feel OK since I probably slept 6 hours. It is so difficult not to overthink in bed and use the tools to fall asleep too intensely. I have an interview next week I hope won’t cause more onset insomnia. I know the seizure event would throw anybody off, so I’m not considering my sleeplessness a failure for that one. I’ll see how the next week goes to see if the interview affects me.
Steve, you sometimes mention feeling dizzy when you don’t get enough sleep, that is so concerning. I know this might sound bizarre, but I was wondering if it might be related to gluten sensitivity? I’ve been gluten-free for 5 years. Gluten caused me to have more neurological symptoms than GI issues. Brain fog, headaches, probably anxiety, and a little GI bloating. Except for this period of insomnia, I have felt great by cutting out gluten…just a thought for you. I’m sorry you’ve had two bad nights in a row and hope tonight the sleep drive will really kick in and you fall into peaceful sleep for several hours.
burn – don’t panic! I’m into my 4th week of ACT and am finding that like you ever other night is bad. Deb had mentioned she had nights of no sleep and since I started I had 3 nights of zero sleep, and I did cheat for 3 nights taking an Ambien. However on my every other good night, I find myself sleeping longer and deeper. This week I’m slowly adding some sleep time to my bad nights. I really have to focus on making sure I take time out for the meditation, especially during the day. Yesterday I really wanted to get out of the house in the morning with my dog, when I drove to the hiking trail, I realized I forgot the morning mindfulness breath exercise so I sat in my car for 4 minutes to practice it. Deb mentioned she does journaling, so I tried this too when there is an emotional issue that just won’t pass. Hopefully this might help with your anxiety.
wsh – thanks for posting about your experience, and it must be such a relief to finally feel rested again! One thing I didn’t expect when I first realized I had chronic insomnia was the time and patience it takes to heal. Learning about ACT is helping so much, into my 4th week of it. My insomnia started the middle of March, brought on from medication. I agree with all of the strategies that helped you overcome insomnia, just trying one thing will probably not lead to success, you really need to treat the whole person: the physical body, spiritual and emotional/psychological aspects too. And yes, too many pre-sleep rituals end up bringing on more anxiety instead of relaxation.
You are so lucky you have a supportive spouse and employer. My home situation is not supportive and so finding a caring and kind church group was helpful. I am very spiritual but was alone in that journey, having people who love you enough to pray over you will bring you to tears, and eventually tears of joy. I hope you have many more peaceful and restful nights.
Update with ACT – into my 4th week and sleep is still all over the place but at least there is sleep! I’m starting to love Guy Meadows. Every other night is good, probably 6.5 – to over 8 hours of sleep. The other nights (bad nights) used to be zero sleep but now are about 4 hours, enough to be competent during the day. Last night I was really tired, had no wind-down period, just decided to plop in bed a little after 9pm. Fell asleep just before 10pm, woke up about 3:30am-4am, stayed calm in bed, thought I might not go back to sleep. Tried to refocus on breathing, textures, accepting some bad thoughts, then realizing my heartbeat was slow, I really was calm and just repeated to myself that I was calm, comfortable and warm and about 5:30am fell back to sleep until 6:45am. It was great to wake up again so rested and peaceful.
Nik – I really enjoyed reading what you wrote on 8/22 about the state of the brain, it made a whole lot of sense to me. I’m one of those people who really likes to understand the science, biology, physiology of things. When I met with a sleep doctor and he wanted me to practice SC, he wanted me to meditate within an hour of going to bed (probably with the intention that it might relax me enough to go to sleep). But if he would have told me that studies showed that 8 weeks of mindfulness meditation can change your brain I definitely would have made more of an effort to do so at any time of the day.
Pam – Your BIL has a great attitude, but I wonder if his aches and pains are due to little sleep. I was so achy the days I slept 4 hours or less.
