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Question about letting the mind wandering. I’m not sure that the book discusses it but when letting your mind just wander, do you still notice and welcome those thoughts?
I’m doing a little better, still not back 100% yet but Sunday was closer to being my old self, attitude wise. Was still doing things that were not really “accepting” behaviors but working on that. I think I’m finally getting the “techniques” down and I think my anxiety when I wake up in the early morning hours is a getting a little better and I’m doing a better job of recognizing them and not getting all worked up. I’ve noticed things that I used to do that were really detrimental and working on those behaviors. One is staying in bed too long (I’ve limiting my time in bed to 7hrs currently) and the other is how I react to feelings and thoughts that spring up when I awaKe. Racing thoughts seem to be slowing down in frequency so I think I’m heading in the right direction. Biggest thing I trying to accomplish is just getting on with my life and doing the things I want to do.
Still takes some time to fall back asleep when I wake EM but am able to fall back asleep.
Steve,
Hows the CPAP working out? That takes a bit of time to get used to. Do you have an AutoPAP? I have really mild sleep apnea but snore loud but use a machine and it completely eliminates that.
Don’t give the relapse any weight or importance. It is what it is and don’t let it be concerning or alter any behaviors/thoughts that keep you on track to better sleep.
I do a 30-45 minute mindfulness meditation everyday. First part is guided, moving body into comfortable position and assessing with my mind whether that is true or if I can be more comfortable. Next is stillness body scan and looking at each body part from the feet to the head to the hands. Then relaxing the mind, softening any troubled thoughts past or future. And lastly once my mind and body is relaxed, focusing on the whole breath (inhale/exhale/pauses) and bringing my focus back to the breath if it wanders. Its guided by a Buddhist monk Ajhan Brahm. If you search “Ajahn Brahm mindfulness meditation” in youtube, you can find his guided meditation sessions.
I feel like this ACT approach will work for me because I “accidentally” did something similar 8 years ago when I had the same exact problem. I basically stopped caring about my insomnia and trying to fix it and guess I just accepted that I had it and had to move on with my life with it. And like a switch, I didn’t have it anymore and was able to sleep much better. There was no incremental improvement, for me, and I don’t even remember the day it happened but all of a sudden I slept better and it continued and I didn’t give it anymore thought. I guess what I’m trying to say is I just gave up on expectations (easier said than done I know). There was no thought “I had a night or a couple nights of good/bad sleep, I wonder what tonight will bring”. I didn’t care how many hours I slept or days in a row I slept good, I just slept like I always had, pre-insomnia, without giving it any thought and woke up feeling good.
There was no sleep restriction set number of hours that I adhered to, diary tracking of sleep or getting out of bed in the middle of the night when I woke and returning to bed when I was sleepy. All those things nuked my anxiety to sky high levels when I tried them. There were times I had severe mental breakdowns that I had never experienced in my life before and couldn’t function on those days. The problem I dealt with was I know if I follow the rules they should help me but it seemed so strict that if I didn’t follow the rules exactly everyday I wasn’t going to get better. No naps, oopps I feel asleep at my work desk after lunch or I’m so tired that I need to nap so I can be able to drive to visit friends and have a semblance of life on the weekends, I had the thought that I probably screwed up my night of sleep and all the “progress” I had made so far. Must stay up to sleep window, no microsleeps. I had to switch myself over to a hard wooden chair, from my nice comfortable relaxing recliner, or stand up and march in place so I didn’t doze off or go for a hour walk at night so I didn’t fall asleep. Oopps I fell asleep in my recliner for a couple minutes, I’m screwed I thought and couldn’t get to sleep when my window began because I dozed off when I wasn’t supposed to. SC was the worst. How long have I been awake for, do I need to get out of bed now, I’m tired as hell but at least I’m comfortable here in bed but I need to get up because I need to follow the program or I’m not going to get better and ruin any progress. Great, now I’m out of bed but I’m so freaking tired that I can’t read, don’t want to watch television, but I can sort of listen to it with my eyes closed but I can’t fall asleep where I’m at cause that wouldn’t be following SC. I just want to get back into bed but have I spent enough time out of bed yet, am I sleepy enough to go back to bed, I don’t know but I am stupid tired. Get back into bed, not falling back to sleep, am I spending too much time in bed and how long have I been here awake, do I need to get back out of bed again. I’m beginning to fall asleep but I’m not sure if I’m in my recliner or bed, better anxiously wake myself to see where I fell asleep to make sure it’s the bed. Then lets record the horror of the night before day after day in a sleep diary. That was my SR/SC hell.
/Rant Sorry needed to vent
Still trying to get the hang of ACT. A lot of times I wake up and can feel the anxiety in my shoulders/upper chest and in my forearms. Its a tense feeling in my shoulders and burning/heat sensation in my forearms. Also I dont have a problem with negative thoughts lingering in my mind or me following them but a lot of times they speed or ping their way into my mind without me even noticing them and it sends a anxious wave/pulse thru my body without me even thinking about them which is weird. For the tense body parts, I observe them and zoom in on the problem spot be it my forearms or shoulders and just think kind compassionate thoughts about them. I’m trying to just relax my body which may be part of my problem, the trying to achieve results and maybe I should just do it with no expectations. Any thoughts on this or the pinging of racing thoughts causing anxiety spikes (this one I’m really lost on what to do)? Thanks
Found this in Dr. Claire Weekes’ “Hope and Help for your Nerves”
“Sufferers of nervous illness sometimes dread the night. They lie in a bed of panic and sweat, with terrifying thoughts racing through their minds.
First, understand that your fears are terrifying only because your body is in a sensitized state, shooting off exaggerated responses, where normally you would feel perhaps no more than a vague disturbance. Your problems are not as terrible as your tired, sensitized body would have you believe. Therefore, try to see your panic for what it is, the exaggerated response of sensitized nerves and and not necessarily an expression of the magnitude of your problems. Make yourself as comfortable in bed as you can, relax to the best of your ability, then examine the feeling of panic and be prepared to let it sweep over you. Relax and go with it. Do not shrink from it or try to control it.
You will find that if you can do this, the waves of panic will settle into being a hot, sore feeling tin the pit of your stomach. You can get so used to this feeling that you can drop off to sleep with it there.
Your own thoughts may bring this panic, or it may sweep over you without apparent cause. If your thoughts are to blame, recognize that they are only thoughts; although, coming as they do so charged with fear, they may appear as monsters. Recognize that they are only thoughts and let them float away. Release them. Let them go. Do not clutch them.When you decide to face panic and see it through, you feel some relief, and this brings its own relaxation and a certain amount of peace. I say a certain amount, because at first you may not be aware of a great change in the way you feel. Although there is acceptance in your mind, your body may not resound to this for a while. However, it is possible that you may be surprised at the relief you feel. This may be so great that you may find your attention wandering from yourself.
It is easy for me to say relax and accept. I know that it may be very difficult to a tense, panic-stricken person to relax, but it can be done. Remember, the panic is there only because your nerves are sensitized to it. One spasm of fear is making you more fearful of the next, so that each spasm seems more intense than the last. If you relax, analyze the spasms, and resign yourself to having them temporarily, without adding a second fear, you will develop an inner peace that will break the cycle of spasm-panic-spasm.”
What tools are you all using to accept the negative emotions that occur at night? I’m at that point in the course now and having a hard time with it. The examples they use are creating space in your body for the physical state that you have given your emotion and breathe in, filling the space with air thus lessening the impact of the emotion. I’m not so good with the creating imagery part so I’m struggling conceptualizing this aspect. Any thoughts?
So I was using Guy Meadows online course this weekend (about halfway thru it) and this is what I’ve gotten so far. Practice mindfulness a couple times during the day, I prefer mindfulness meditation noticing the body at first (how relaxed or tense it is and using kindness/openness to further relax the body) then transitioning into noticing the breath and following it (if your mind wanders away from the breath, take notice, and return to the breath). It seems like your supposed to limit this to daytime use and not use it if you wake in the middle of the night but if you do, do it briefly.
The second thing learned is if you wake in the middle of the night, notice the negative thought, welcome it with kindfulness instead of trying to fight/ignore or change the thought and let it pass by and let go. So this is how I’m going about it, I notice the negative thought, I welcome it by thinking something along the lines of “How’s its going thought, nice to see you again” or “Welcome thought, my door is always open to you/thank you for showing up” and letting go of the thought and letting my mind drift.
Seems like simple concepts but is something that you need to keep at and be diligent (maybe not the best word) and its especially difficult while lying in bed facing those negative thoughts head on in the beginning.
So my question, is it really tiring in the beginning stages because I’m facing a constant onslaught of negative thoughts? It’s like my mind is go go go when I wake. At the start, I seem to have, when I wake up in the middle of the night, a flowing stream of negative thoughts, which I have to welcome, follow, let pass, rinse and repeat, constantly. I’m assuming with practice and using the tools that over time the mind and thoughts will eventually slow or dull. Is this correct? Anything I’m missing or doing “wrong” so far?
I think I’m going to give ACT a try since rigid CBT doesn’t really help with my early morning awakening. I can sleep 4.5 to 5.5 hrs in one chunk but then have trouble getting back to sleep. I’ve ordered guy meadows book
I’m also planning on doing a video conference with the sleep school. There is a appointment open next week and was planning on doing that but should I read the the book first?
I get negative sleep thoughts plus negative thoughts in general when I awaken early that don’t stop. What should I do with those with regards to ACT?
“I don’t know if you read the post earlier about how people with insomnia have an overactive amygdala in the brain, which controls the fight or flight response. That’s why you wake up a lot. The brain is on constant alert, even when you’re asleep.”
That’s not what the study showed at all. The amygdala has a lot of functions, not just fight or flight and wasn’t the conclusion of the study. Also they didn’t measure this while the people were sleeping, like you stated before.
Deb,
how does ACT handle sleep restriction? I can see how ACT SC can work but I don’t know if I could use that. I’d rather accept that if I can’t sleep I’d rather be up doing something else and not try to force sleep which feeds my insomnia
Deb,
Would you recommend Guy Meadow’s book? I’ve listened to a lot of Dr. Claire Weekes talks on YT about acceptance and that is a path I’m going to down to deal with the sleep anxiety. If you’re not familiar with her, she did a lot of work with anxiety (sensitization disorder/nervous illness) and facing the fear, accepting anxiety and not fighting it cause that just adds fuel (basically do nothing to combat anxiety), floating with the anxiety (riding the wave of anxiety because it will pass) and letting time pass (not setting expecting for when you will get better, just accepting you will get better over time). I had the same problem eight years ago that I do now with waking up after 4.5/5 hrs of sleep and not being able to go back to sleep but it just went away after a year cause I guess I stopped caring about (learned to accept in a funny way) and decided that I just needed to go on with my life. Went from EMA to normal sleep just like that. No need to increase things in 15min every week or 2. Once sleep confidence came back I was good to go.
Borgesi
The short SW (5.5 hrs), with me, caused major anxiety issues as well as some depression (more than the insomnia caused itself) too. I would have panic attacks at least once a week; I didn’t know what was happening at first cause I never experienced them in my life before starting SRT (guess I was getting more sleep with insomnia than I thought).
I know people say to adopt a robotic mindset about these things but I’m a human and not thoughtless, I’m going to need to monitor and make sure I’m following the rules, sorry this stuff isn’t second nature and will never be to me. If I accidentally took a nap at work, micro slept before my SW for just a few seconds, having to stay awake before my SW and being extremely sleepy from 10Pm to midnight just waiting for my SW to begin all just increased my anxiety because I felt if I didn’t follow all the rules every night that I wasn’t going to get any better and just delay/setback any progress I had made. A couple nights a week I would basically hold onto bags of ice and march in place to stay awake and there were times I felt like I was falling asleep standing up but would make it to my sleep window, fall asleep instantly but awoke an hour or less later (didn’t clock watch, have means to know) WTF. I never had this problem before starting SR. Just fueling the anxiety it seems
Talking with a an insomnia expert at a leading hospital here in Connecticut, I’m going to go with a more liberal SW and focus solely on SC and going to bed and getting up at more or less the same time everyday.
Deb
Is that limited to one month or could you pay another 99$ and do a second month and so on?
Great job so far Mac. Just a question about why you wouldn’t recommend your soft SRT to people with higher anxiety?
obribri,
Thanks for the info. You get any other tips out of Dr. Rybarcyzk’s program that many people might not know about or is different from a lot of other programs? Which kind of insomnia did you have (onset, maintenance, early morning awakening, or a mix)?
I’m mostly just venting. I know I have to follow Martin’s recommendations since they are proven to work but it’s tremendously difficult. I can follow for a couple days in a row but then just crash from tiredness after a bad night of little or no sleep. Hard to function the next day, stay awake during the day, as well as making it to the start of the sleep window. I have a window of 5.5 hrs, wake up mostly after 4.75hrs, see if I can go back to sleep for 30mins, if not then I just get up for the day.
