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Steve,
Same as you with SC.
Yea, I’m not sure how people get up and actually do things in the middle of the night. When I awaken early in the morning, there is no way I can read cause my eyes and brain can’t focus when I’m that tired. Tried to watch TV but all I wanted to do was close my eyes cause the lights and sounds “hurt” my brain that early so I just ended up sitting in the dark. May have fallen asleep, may not have in the living room chair but I was too tired to care. Would usually end up coloring and would just mindlessly do that but mostly just thought when can I get back into bed. With my sleep window of 5.5 hours, and waking up after 4.5hr I just didn’t see the point of SC so I would just stay in bed and sometimes catch another 20mins of sleep, something that wouldn’t happen with SC. In Gregg Jacobs book/program, you can stay in bed and read for up to an hour.
I have a hard time understanding if the getting out of bed portion of SC is even worth it for early morning awakening if you sleep in one chunk with no other long awakenings. Early morning awakening seems like more like a broken circadian rhythm issue due to messed up sleep schedules (whether too variable or too long) that just needs to be re-booted over time.
“Once an individual has been comfortably sleeping, melatonin slowly is released to provide a second wave of drowsiness three to four hours. This helps sustain sleep through the second half of the night.
It takes this combination of alerting and drowsy signals to facilitate consolidation of sleep into a block at night.
According to Rybarczyk, the circadian system is malleable – it will cooperate with whatever programming it is given in the form of cues from an individual’s patterns of activity and sleep during the day. Take for example someone who works an overnight shift in a hospital or warehouse or a traveler changing time zones. They are able to be awake and alert during night hours because they’ve reconditioned their sleep system to wake earlier than called for or to wake in the middle of the night.
However, when individuals have highly variable sleep/wake patterns – going to bed late or sleeping earlier – the circadian system is weakened. As variable sleeping patterns happen again, their circadian system gradually goes into quiet mode.
“That is the nature of the sleep system – it’s infinitely trainable, for better or worse sleep,” Rybarczyk said.”
“Now it’s at five to six weeks since the start of treatment,” Rybarczyk said. “Along the way, they’ve really retrained the brain to have that automatic sleep response and have a consistent sleep pattern. That reactivates the circadian system which serves a vital role by creating an infusion of drowsiness in the second half of the sleep period.”
“With the circadian system restarted, they are able to sustain sleep throughout the night,” he said.
Also if I sleep 4.5 -5 hours in one chunk on a 5.5, 6 or even 6.5 window what is the point on restricting sleep down to the lowest level if I’m consistent with my window starting and waking at the same time everyday? I know that SE would be lower but why would sleep efficiency matter for early morning awakening? I don’t think its a pairing bed with sleep/awakening issue since I can go to bed with no problem (no stress tied to this) and experience only one terminal awakening (which I’m not stressed about happening either, no anxiety or heart racing, I’m just awake for whatever reason). I have no anxieties about sleep now I understand what is happening, I had more anxiety when I really didn’t know what was wrong with me.
Checking in, rough couple days as well. Slept 4 hours one night (getting back into swing of things so expected), really struggled to stay awake next night for the start of my sleep window and fell asleep as soon as head hit the pillow but woke up like an hour later, took a little while to get back to sleep and maybe slept for another hour then awake for rest of night. Was a mess the next day at work, hardly able to stay awake at my desk and passed out for like a half an hour at lunch. Went home and tried to stay up for my sleep window but fell asleep watching TV early. Went to my bed, forgot to set the alarm but I slept a lot more than I usually do. Probably around 7 hours over 8.5 hour sleep window (versus 4.75 over 5.5 hours. Not tired today, no need for nap but brain is still foggy.
I don’t know how people do this consistently for weeks before they see meaningful results. This is the hardest thing I have attempted in my life, seems borderline impossible to strictly follow the rules day after day, week after week for months. At least if I spread my sleep window out, I was able to squeeze a little more sleep in, and I wasn’t tired during the day or early evening but I still felt like crap which wasn’t much of a difference than when on sleep restriction. Tried Sleep restriction for the first time a couple months back but the buildup of sleep deprivation was too much for me. My mood became completely unhinged, unable to stay awake during the day and staying awake to SW was an immense struggle. One weekend I just crashed in the afternoon and napped for like 2 hours of constant dreaming. It felt great. Still having this struggle on the second go round of SR.
“Rybarczyk, who has an 80 percent success rate with this treatment, believes that as many as 98 percent of chronic insomnia sufferers could benefit from it, though he says only those who are very persistent with their physicians find out about the treatment.”
Steve
Yea no clock for me. I’d just freak out if I look and see I didn’t sleep as much as I thought I’d be too anxious to fall back asleep.
Like you some days I just get up if I awaken early because I know I’m not getting back to sleep even though I’m exhausted when I awaken. Just hate the fact that I get up before 5 and don’t go to bed a little before midnight it’s going to make for a very long day.
We’ll get there Steve. We keep at this for like a couple months we will be sleeping much better than we are now
What sleep window are you using?
Yea my sleep got a little better, much better SE but I still had the early morning awakenings. I wasn’t the most disciplined starting out and was frustrated that this wasn’t a quick fix or seeing massive improvements right from the start. The sleep window, which I picked, might have been starting too late (since I fell asleep as soon as head hit pillow) and against Martins recommendation I stayed at a later SW cause I didn’t want to wake before 6. Now I’m moving my sleep time to one of his recommended windows starting tonight.
Would get really frustrated, with myself, on nights where I would have a few good nights in a row (about 4.75- 5hrs) then have a night where I went to bed extremely sleepy and would wake up after like an hour or 2 (looked at phone/clock mistakenly) and wouldn’t be able to get back to sleep. Then the next day I would be a total wreck at work, fall apart, having a breakdown and call my parents for support and would just go to my bed and “sleep” as soon as I got home. Or I would fall asleep in my recliner before my SW and get mad at myself for screwing up. I became very hard on myself if I did anything wrong because I thought I had ruined my progress for not only the night but the program so far and all my “progress” was out the window. I’ve learned over the weeks to ease up on myself.
Just need to take it one day at a time and realize its not going to be a quick fix.
Toughest thing going forward is not letting the really bad night or 2 get to me and derail my progress and making sure I’m out of bed on the weekends (even though being up at 5 AM on a Sat/Sun sucks) and not napping on the weekends.
New to this thread….
I’m finishing up Week 6 and was progressing along with Martin’s help but last week had a slight breakdown (bc severe lack of sleep a few nights) coupled with a death in the family that completely derailed my sleep for the past week and a half. I started at 5.5 window (I mostly sleep between 4.5 to 5 hrs a night) and moved to 5.75 hours after week 4.
Because lack week and a half was such a wreck sleeping (going back to old sleep schedule and doing whatever) I figured I would just start over again at 5.5 hrs (11:15 to 4:45) and join this thread.
Worst part of the course so far has been the extreme tiredness during the day, falling asleep briefly at my desk during the day from morning to afternoon which wasn’t happening before I started doing SR and SC. My old sleep window I had set to midnight and was barely able to stay awake till then basically standing up and doing squats but would still feel like I was asleep on my feet and having to move from my recliner to an uncomfortable chair bc I would doze off. Other issue was that even though I fall asleep as soon as head hits the pillow from being extremely sleepy, I would still wake after 4.5 hrs (one chunk usually), try for 30 mins to sleep then get up for 30 mins, lay back down and minutes later alarm is going off ending my sleep window. SC has been really difficult bc when I get up to read or watch tv, I’m so exhausted that my eyes can’t see straight and my brain cant comprehend what I’m reading or watching and I just end up sitting in my chair in the dark trying not to nod off and is not something that I look forward to when in bed in the middle of the night. Also have a hard time estimating the 30 mins cause all I want to do is get back to bed (even though I probably wont fall back asleep) which probably doesn’t help things either.
Sorry for the long post, just needed to vent. But I’m here to restart everything and need some encouragement and following this thread has provided me the push to start over and not get derailed.
Thanks
Even though I’m not seeing results yet, the course is very helpful with educating me on the finer points of CBT-I not only thru Martin’s course videos but he answers questions and concerns with great detail.
Steve,
I’m not going to say that yet because the first week of sleep restriction was really difficult and 2 days I didn’t get out of bed before my sleep window ended. I just finished week 3 and for the past week plus some I’ve been consistent with my wake times but didn’t do the 30 30 one of those days. I’m not going to say its not helping yet because I can improve things.
I got sleep maintenance/early morning awakening. I sleep for about 4.5 hrs in one chunk then wake up and can’t get back to sleep. I struggle with the 30 30 rule because I have a 5.5 hr sleep window. So if I wake then wait about 30 mins that only leaves me 30 mins left in my sleep window but I need to get up for atleast 30 so there is absolutely no chance I will be going back to sleep. I basically just give myself like 10-20 mins to fall back asleep now then just get up to start my day. I’ve done this diligently for a little over a week and have seen no results in terms of falling back asleep/increase in sleep time and its starting to wear on me mentally with being extremely tired. I think I’m applying it correctly but who knows with the lack of any results I’m seeing. All it seems to be doing right now is making me really struggle to stay awake till my sleep window starts and almost passing out after lunch at work. I’ve had to resort to standing for the last hour before my sleep window and find myself almost falling asleep while standing.
To answer your question, from the “Behavioral Treatments for Sleep Disorders” there is a part that says “Individuals who fall asleep quickly and have short, compact sleep prior to a terminal early morning awakening are unlikely to benefit from Sleep Restriction Therapy. In these cases, restricting time in bed will not reduce sleep latency, not reduce the number or duration of awakenings, and not likely increase the duration of sleep.” I’m able to fall asleep in less than 5 mins when my sleep window hits and sleep for what feels like a solid chunk of 4.5hrs. This is only a guess and I’m not an expert but Sleep restriction for sleep maintenance insomnia main benefit is spending less time in bed awake. Pairing this with Stimulus Control (which seems like the more important tool for sleep maintenance/early morning awakening) should re-condition you to tie the bed to sleep. I guess when your able to fall back asleep when waking SRT will keep your sleep compact while you increase your sleep window little by little.
I was doing a 6 hr sleep restriction in the past and seeing the same results regarding length of sleep, 4.5 hrs as I am now on a 5.5 hr sleep window. I wasn’t doing stimulus control though.
1) Hard to say but try not to think/worry about it. You will build drive by being awake during the day since you got up at the end of your sleep window. Just the following night, make sure to only go to bed if sleepy once your sleep window begins. You did more damage to the association between sleep and the bed if anything.
2) Yes, I’ve been having this problem but I’ve only been doing the sleep restriction/STC for a little over a week. I’ve slept in one chunk for 4.75 hrs for a couple nights then one night I will sleep like 3 hrs for whatever reason. Try not to dwell and just stick to the rules.
3) I’ve tried to sit in a darkened room but I just think about when I’ll be able to go back to bed and it isn’t really helpful to me. When I get up, I have a hard time reading since my brain is not really functioning and following a TV show is hard, I more just keep it on in the background. Its easier for me to just open up a coloring book and go at it. As long your not sitting really close to the TV the blue light thing is really not an issue and if its an activity you know will help get you out of bed, just do it.
4) Sleep in the bed, not the chair in the middle of the night. For me atleast this was a problem when I tried to just sit in the room dark and not doing anything. It was hard for me to tell whether or not I fell asleep briefly in the chair as well as just thinking about when I can go back to bed caused high anxiety. By sleeping in another room in the middle of the night, you’re missing the opportunity to tie sleep to only the bed (Stimulus Control)
5) Try not to think about how long it should take, just do it. Everyone is different. Also you should be pairing sleep restriction with stimulus control.
I’m trying to do Stimulus Control at night when I wake up early (which is always), any tips to ease the anxiety? I seem to be suffering real bad from that right now. I get up and go to another room to watch TV but the anxiety doesn’t seem to ease up.
Deb,
I’ve read a lot of your posts and this latest one is really inspiring. I just finished my first week of trying sleep restriction with Martin and it didn’t go well. Had two meltdowns this week but I’m determined to make this work. I was messing around with sleep restriction for a few weeks prior at 6 hours (sleeping only 4.75hrs though) but after my intake Martin has me down to 5.5hrs. I was not using SC which I’ve learned is really really helpful for my early morning insomnia. The part about thinking about it as training is really helpful and that is how I have to go about it going forward. Set a consistent sleep window with one wake up time and if I don’t fall back asleep in the morning get out of bed and do something else and do all this without thought.
Again your journey has been very inspiring and hope you get your sleep to where you want it.
