Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
I got insomnia last year and as a result of my research have come to understand that chronic insomnia is a mental condition and cannot be healed through drugs or medical interventions. The only treatments I know of for this that work are CBT-I, cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia, or ACT. For information about CBT-I read this website and also watch Martin’s videos. He also can coach you through it and is an excellent coach. For ACT the best resource is The Sleep Book by Dr. Guy Meadows. He also has a website.
Manfred – hopefully through doing CBT-I the anxiety will start going down again. Once we start sleeping better, it tends to go down. Have you tried the mindfulness yet? Seems it would help you.
Mac – how’s this week been for you?
Last night was better for me. Fell asleep within an hour. I think I had light sleep mixed with regular sleep because I woke up feeling not fully rested even though I slept till 7:30. But do feel that I’m back on track. Anxiety is going down. This is my forth night practicing ACT the right way, without any props. Just lay in bed and do nothing.
Yes I got out of bed. I usually read and sometimes wrote in my journal. What has relaxed you in the past?
Tell us more about your experience with CBT-I when you did Martin’s course. How was SC and SRT for you then? Did your anxiety go down?
Yes I had intense anxiety and the catastrophizing. I think most of us here on the forum all went through this. That’s how this darn anxiety became chronic, with all our worrying! When I started SRT, I saw how well it was working and then my anxiety went down a lot. I was lucky in that right away I was sleeping well 5 nights out of 7. I didn’t do so well with the SC though on the other 2 nights. I hated getting up and would only get up once or twice instead of as long as needed. I struggled a lot on those nights.
Last night was another long night. Laid in bed a long time not struggling, but not sleeping either. Finally caught some sleep in the morning so I’m ok today. I thought I was on my way to recovery but maybe not yet. Maybe it’s just going to take longer this time. Will have to accept that. I can still slip into some catastrophizing these days, wondering if I’m training my brain to stay awake all night and sleep a few hours in the morning. But I know this thinking is not helpful. Have to remind myself of Carlos in the book, whose sleep didn’t improve for 2 weeks. I’ve only been doing this a few days now with no props.
The free course may be terminated but the paid course should still be available. Just email Martin and ask. It helped me tremendously and reduced my anxiety knowing that I had someone to “hold my hand” when I had tons of anxiety in the beginning.
Mac – I don’t see you spiraling downward if you just continue to do what you’re doing. It does sound like you have turned a corner as far as handling the awakenings in a helpful way. As long as you don’t panic or beat yourself up you should be fine. But if you do, just remind yourself that it’s not helpful, be gentle with yourself and relax again. Just wondering, are you still going to bed 10:30 to 11:00? Are you getting enough sleep now on the nights you wake up and fall back to sleep?
Manfred – Every day I take Effexor which is an antidepressant. I take the lowest dosage of 37.5 mg. With such a low dosage, I don’t know if it’s really making any difference or not but I’m taking it anyway as a precaution until I’m really sure I’m well on way to complete recovery and handling relapses well. I also take it for the sake of my poor husband who has a hard time when I’m completely bent out of shape!
Manfred, I was thinking about you yesterday and was wondering if it might be best for you to go back on CBT-I since your sleep anxiety is so high right now. You said you did well on it before, so you would do well on it again. I would encourage you to become a client of Martin because he is excellent and can coach you on this on a day to day basis. He is very accessible and helpful. I did the 8-week paid course with him and would email him whenever I was struggling or had questions. He would always get back to me soon.
It just seems to me that your anxiety is so high that it might be hard to do ACT which involves a lot of work on your thinking. With CBT-I you don’t have to think about anything. You just do it and then it works. Many of us here on this forum did CBT-I first and then later ACT. By the time we did ACT, our anxiety was a lot lower because we gained confidence in our ability to sleep. We switched over then because we felt we had reached a plateau with CBT-I and ACT helped us get to the finish line, like Karen said. You could do ACT later also, when your anxiety is lower. Then again, you might fully recover from CBT-I alone, just like most of Martin’s clients have.
About me – last night when I laid in bed I realized that I was really relaxed. I didn’t have to get myself into a relaxed state like I did the night before. I just was. It seemed like I was awake the first half of the night but I might have been in and out of light sleep. Woke up at 6:30 not refreshed but decent, so I’ll be fine today. This seems to be my pattern with ACT. First the long nights, then the light sleep, then it gets better. I feel like I’m back on the road to recovery.
Hi Manfred – welcome to the forum. I take a medication for anxiety. Are you taking anything for that? Since you have so much anxiety, you may want to consider getting some professional help through counseling as well as medication. I don’t have much anxiety in general except about the insomnia. How long have you had insomnia and do you have trouble initially falling asleep or do you wake up too early and can’t fall back asleep?
In The Sleep Book, Dr. Guy recommends you do mindfulness during the daytime first because it’s a lot easier in the daytime than when you’re lying in bed alone with all your thoughts. I think this would probably be a good place for you to start. He suggests doing the exercises maybe 5 times a day just for a few minutes each time. When you get the hang of it, then try practicing it at night. The goal of doing mindfulness in bed is to calm yourself down. Once you’re calm then just lay there in bed doing nothing so that sleep naturally comes. Acceptance means accepting on a nightly basis that you may or may not sleep that particular night. With this attitude then you stop struggling with your insomnia and instead just relax. Then once your mind is out of the way your body can take over and put you to sleep.
Mac – last night for me was better. I was really exhausted when I went to bed, but for myself, that still is no guarantee that I will fall asleep. Fortunately I did fall asleep within an hour or so. Then I woke up a couple times. I fell back asleep both times, although not right away. So today I’m feeling much better. I think I’m realizing about myself that I have this pattern of avoidance and running away from my insomnia. I guess you could also call it fear of my insomnia (and also fear of doing ACT since the first night or two are usually difficult). So I’ve had lots of stops and starts with ACT this last month, falling back on props like pills and alcohol, and as a result, have not made progress. Last night there were no props at all so hopefully I can keep this up.
Sorry you had a bad night, Mac, but at least you know what caused it so you can do something about it. Just wondering – do you still wake up most week nights and when you do, are you usually able to fall back asleep? If so, has ACT helped you to fall back asleep more easily?
Had another rough night. Maybe I do need to practice mindfulness. Could not settle my mind down at all. Was a zombie when I finally got up today around 7:30. Was so, so tempted to take an Ambien and just throw up my arms. But that would just be another repeat of yesterday. Instead, I laid down on the couch and was able to fall asleep for a couple hours, thank goodness. Not too much sleep like yesterday and continuing my dependency on pills, but not too little. So I feel halfway decent and can get through the day.
Glad things are making more sense to you, Whitelori. Now I just have to practice what I preach. Sometimes I feel like the blind leading the blind because I certainly don’t have this down perfectly.
Last night was an example. I was getting over the flu so I didn’t take any Niquil. As a result, I laid in bed awake all night. I figured this would probably happen and accepted it. I was able to stay calm all night until I made a mistake. I got up to use the bathroom and peeked at the clock. It was 6:00! If I hadn’t seen the clock I probably would have eventually fallen asleep and gotten 2 or 3 hours of sleep, thinking that maybe it was 4 or 5. But since it was six I knew that the morning light would be coming up soon and my husband also would be getting up soon. So this kept me awake. I was a zombie at 8:30 when I tried to get up. I hated the idea of being a zombie all day so I broke down and took an Ambien. I fell back asleep until 1:00 p.m.
This is a setback. Oh well. Tonight I’ll get back on the horse and do it right (and not look at the clock.) Dr. Guy is not completely against looking at the clock, but in some cases like this, it’s just unhelpful. Looking back over the past month since this relapse began, I realize I haven’t had more than 2 or 3 days in a row of practicing ACT correctly. That’s why I’m not getting anywhere. I keep postponing it due to vacations, special events and all kinds of holiday distractions, giving myself justifications to wait. I need to have long term thinking like I did back in July when I finally recovered and be willing to stick with it for at least two weeks. With no excuses.
You’re welcome. I’m no expert on acceptance, but it just makes sense to me. If you accept whatever happens each night (that you may or may not sleep), then there isn’t any struggle or effort to try to sleep. As result you’re relaxed and eventually will fall asleep. I like the way Dr. Guy talks about Carlos on page 114 and how he finally learned to relax in bed. Because he was no longer expending a lot of energy in bed trying to fall asleep, then he had more energy the next day. Also, he was teaching his brain that bed was a safe place, which resulted in his eventual recovery.
One thing that has helped me during the long nights when I’m awake is reminding myself that eventually I usually do fall asleep, even if for only 2-3 hours in the early morning. My mind can wander and wander all night but eventually the body takes over and knocks me out. I’m lucky in that I don’t have to get up early at a set time, so if I need to sleep in to get these few hours of sleep, then I can. I may wake at 8 or 8:30 on those mornings. Also, I know that with at least a few hours of sleep I’ll be ok the next day and not a complete zombie. So this helps me keep a more positive, hopeful attitude.
Whitelori – Acceptance of your insomnia doesn’t mean that you overall accept your insomnia as something you have to live with forever. Its normal to feel frustration. But at night try to let go of any frustration and concerns. Take it one night at a time and accept that you may not sleep this particular night. When you can finally get to that place of acceptance at night and can be completely calm and relaxed, then paradoxically you’ll start falling asleep. But you may be like Carlos, where your sleep does not improve the first two weeks. Also like him, I think the most important thing for you right now is to learn what it “feels like” to be in that relaxed state of acceptance and calm at night. Once you get the feel for that then consistency in doing this is important. Then your brain (unconscious as well as conscious) starts to trust that the bed is a safe place and you’ll begin to fall asleep more easily.
To tell you the truth, I hardly practiced mindfulness at all (although it’s probably a good thing for anyone to do.) I didn’t really need to do it because I knew what it “felt like” to be in that state of acceptance and relaxation at night. So for myself, my challenge has been more about “catching myself” struggling and then shifting to that place of acceptance. This is not to discourage you from doing mindfulness, but just to let you know that the most important thing and the goal of mindfulness is to get to the place of acceptance, whatever it takes to get there. Dr. Kat said that the number one thing that determined how long it takes people to recover is their ability to get to that place of acceptance. So if you were able to to experience even one night of complete acceptance and relaxation, that would be milestone for you. (Or even a few hours.)
Hi Whitelori – yes, you’re definitely working too hard and it’s keeping you awake! It might be best to practice more during the day. That’s what Dr. Guy recommends. I remember Borgesbi saying that when she first started, she practiced for 2 hours before going to bed. That’s how long it took her to let go of everything and get to the place of acceptance. But within a few days or a week it was taking her less and less time to get to that place. By then she knew what acceptance “felt like” and then could more easily “press the acceptance button” and get to that place of calm.
Just try to remember that the goal is to get to the point of peaceful acceptance, whether in bed or out of bed. For myself, when I’m feeling anxious about my sleep and can’t settle down my mind, I find it helpful to get up and journal for a while. Usually I’ll discover that I’m “struggling” again with my insomnia. I “catch myself in the act” of struggling. It’s so easy for this to be our default mode without our even realizing it. So it takes time and the development of awareness to be able to recognized the difference between struggling and peaceful acceptance.
Here’s an update on my last several nights. Sunday night I took an Ambien because I had to get up at 4:00 a.m. to catch an early flight. Monday night I struggled. I was exhausted and went to bed at 9:00. But couldn’t sleep and got up twice, once at 10:30 and again around 1:30. Each time I had a white Russian and tried to journal. Eventually I fell asleep. Tuesday I realized that the night before I was trying to force myself to sleep with the drink and that I was sabotaging myself. I caught myself in the act of struggling. So Tuesday night I went to bed with an accepting attitude. It was a long night but I stayed calm. I finally got some sleep in the early morning hours so was not a complete Zombie. Tuesday I also realized that I was coming down with a flu bug. Wednesday I was tired all day due to the bug. I took a 2 hour nap in the afternoon from 2-4. That night I took 2 Niquil tablets for the flu. I slept from about 11 to 7, and then fell asleep again until 10. Then last night I took the tablets again and slept 8 hours. Feeling better today. Not sure if the good sleep the last 2 nights is due to the flu, the tablets, ACT, or all of the above. Anyway, I’ll take it!
Whitelori – You do mindfulness at night if it helps you calm down and let go of any negative thoughts or emotions. But once you feel more calm and peaceful then you “do nothing.” Doing mindfulness is making effort. Any kind of thinking that takes effort will keep you awake. I find that once I am in a completely relaxed state then my mind begins to wander, just like it did before the insomnia. Then the body takes over and I fall asleep. Since you’ve had insomnia for 30 years you might have forgotten what this feels like in bed. In that case think about what it’s like listening to a boring lecture. Since the lecturer is not holding your attention then your mind starts to wander and it’s easy to accidentally fall asleep.
So maybe now you can see how ACT can be tricky. If you’re not doing it right, then no matter how long you try you won’t fall asleep and then conclude that ACT just doesn’t work. That’s why professional coaching is the best. Also since you said earlier that it’s hard for you to stick with CBT or ACT, working with someone will give you the “handholding” you need to keep going when it gets rough. If you decide to go this way I’ll give you some tips on working with Dr. Kat. Their outfit is not the most organized.
Whitelori – ACT is tricky to implement. It would be best to read the book again, especially chapter 2 on Acceptance. Sometimes we’re struggling to sleep and we don’t even realize it. That’s why Dr. Guy says that sometimes we have to “catch ourselves in the act of struggling.” I’ve certainly found this to be true for myself. This chapter also is helpful because it gives the case study of Carlos, which would be good for you. He talks about how Carlos took at least two weeks before he really learned how to be completely accepting and peaceful in bed. His sleep did not improve during that those two weeks, but he finally “got” what it meant to be completely accepting and relaxed. Then it took a couple months for his sleep to get better and heal.
This is not easy to do though without some help and support. You said you’ve been lying in bed for long hours but not making any progress. My suspicion is that you aren’t completely accepting and relaxed in bed. I would really recommend you work with Dr. Kat from Guy Meadows’ clinic if you can, because she can help you analyze what you’re doing and thinking, and how it needs to be tweaked. For instance, if in bed you’re meditating, practicing mindfulness, or even practicing acceptance of the negative thoughts that are coming, you are still not completely relaxed in bed. Of course you may have to do some of these things initially to help you let go of any negative thoughts or feelings. But the goal is to get to the place of “complete calm.” I believe that when you can consistently get to this place of calm, then sleep will start coming to you naturally. At least that’s been my experience.
Awww, Mac! That’s too bad. Well, at least the weekend is just a couple nights away.
Welcome, Whitelori. I can’t imagine having insomnia for 30 years! Mine started in Oct 2018, so just over a year ago. Glad the posts have been helpful to you and helps you feel less alone.
Steve – good to hear from you and thanks for the encouragement. When I looked over my posts and sleep diary since this last relapse, I realized that I haven’t been consistently implementing ACT long enough for it to work. There were always interruptions and excuses. So now I’m starting again.
Gdsmom – Hey, go for the injections. I also have always looked younger than I am and having some work done helped even more. It’s worth it to help us feel good about ourselves. Also, it’s nice to see a head turn my way once in awhile again!
