Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Yes, insomnia is a mental condition and drugs are only temporary solutions. There are two therapies for it – CBT-I that Martin explains here on this website and coaches people on, and ACT, which you can read about in The Sleep Book by Dr. Guy Meadows.
Hi Jazzcat – great to hear from you! I was just wondering, how long have you had insomnia, which kind do you have (sleep onset or maintenance) and how long did you sleep before the insomnia?
I ask about the sleep length because if you were sleeping 5 hours before the insomnia then that sounds fine to sleep 5 hours now. But if you were sleeping more, like maybe 7 hours (from 11:00 to 6:00 like your husband) then you should be sleeping more in my opinion. I say this because when I’m sleeping normally, I’m back to the sleep pattern that I had before the insomnia which is around 8 hours. Also, I don’t depend on a strong sleep drive to fall asleep.
Again (in my opinion) I don’t think you really understand how ACT works. Have you read the book? ACT is about learning to completely relax in bed so that you fall asleep and stay asleep. The fact that you fall asleep watching TV, shows me that you can completely relax and fall asleep. Also, the fact that you say that lying in bed is an “effort” shows me that you’re not learning to completely relax in bed. It’s an effort, you’re bored and you’re thinking about how you’d rather being doing something else like getting up and doing yoga. You’re not relaxing and setting the condition whereby sleep will naturally come.
About myself, last night I realized that I’ve probably been doing compensating behaviors and having unhelpful thoughts that have been contributing to my insomnia the last several days. I just go to that place so automatically and without any awareness when I start struggling with my sleep. So last night was better. I fell asleep within a more reasonable period of time and then had light sleep. I got up to go to the bathroom and then could not fall asleep. I’m tired today, but hopeful.
Yes sleep onset insomnia is a real bummer. You can go for HOURS without sleeping. I’m glad it’s fascinating for you! Maybe others are meant to learn from me as I figure this out for myself.
It’s interesting because right now I’m reading this book about a woman whose boyfriend breaks off their relationship with no warming. She is devastated because they seemed to have been doing so well and were talking about getting married. She said that this was a lot harder than if they had been having a difficult time for a long time, like a couple getting divorced after a painful marriage. So it’s sort of like this for me. I’ve been doing so well for a long time and then this happens. Whereas if I had been struggling and then gradually got better, maybe it wouldn’t feel so frustrated.
In bed I don’t think about anything in particular. It’s only when I realize I’ve been laying there for hours that I start getting frustrated. Sometimes I’ve been able to let it go of the frustration and then finally fall asleep in the wee hours of the morning. Other times I’m not so successful.
Hi Mac, sorry you couldn’t be well rested for your work party. That’s a bummer. But glad your mentality about it is better than in the past. About your phone, I wouldn’t worry about it. I sometimes look at mine a few minutes, but mostly I read before bed.
I’m not doing great. I’ve had a lot of long nights laying in bed unable to fall asleep. Getting frustrated and discouraged. It’s been over a week now since my relapse started. Last night again I couldn’t sleep and finally at 2:00 got up, had a drink and wrote in my journal a bit. Went back to bed in about a half hour. Laid there and still couldn’t sleep. Got up and could hear the morning traffic outside starting up. It was 4:30. I broke down and took an Ambien. Still couldn’t sleep for half an hour even though I was extremely tired and dizzy. Thought about taking another Ambien, but I know that’s dangerous. I’m already taking the highest dosage of 10 mg. I slowly walked into the living room and decided to try sleeping on the couch. I slept for about 5 hours there. Didn’t hear my husband get up and go to work or anything. Luckily I’ve got no obligations today. Only need to do some shopping.
I don’t know why it’s so much harder this time. I think I know what I need to do, but it’s been hard to completely commit myself to do it. Back in July when I finally started ACT again I committed myself to two weeks of doing it right, using no props like alcohol or pills and enduring the long nights and tired days. I told myself if I didn’t see any improvement during that time I would quit. But within two weeks I was cured. It started out with one or two long nights but then it quickly shifted to my falling asleep soon but having shallow sleep. Then soon the sleep deepened and I was sleeping normally – falling asleep easily and sleeping through the night.
Now I’m having a string of long nights where I’ll just lay in bed for hours. Sometimes I look at the clock and sometimes I don’t, but I figure on average I’ve been up until 3:00 almost every night. Sometimes I’ll stay in bed and not take anything and I’ll eventually fall asleep and get a few hours in the early morning. Other times I’ve gotten up around 2:00 or 3:00 and then had a drink or a pill to help me fall asleep. I know this is not helping me in the long run, but it’s just so hard of face another long night!
I know that I need to do what I did before which is to recommit myself to at least two weeks of no pills or alcohol and staying in bed and enduring the long, sleepless nights (and accepting them.) Then maybe things will begin to shift. But it’s so hard. On page 77 under the section, I’M TOO TIRED, Guy says that tiredness can lower your motivation and unwillingness to experience discomfort. “The extra tiredness experienced in the first few sleepless days after coming off pills can be enough to drive people to give up and revert back to tolerating a few hours of drug-induced sleep and next day grogginess instead.” That’s me alright.
Sorry for the depressing report. Thinking of starting a sleep diary again and seeing if I can gradually increase the number of nights of not relying on props or pills, since I just don’t seem to have the will power right now to commit to two full weeks of abstinence. I may check in with Dr. Kat too for any tips. I still have 45 unused minutes available to use with her.
Just a some other thoughts, Mac, about a couple of your comments. About “Can’t worry or be frustrated when laying in bed at night no matter what.” Like I said before, I accept that it’s ok sometimes if I can’t get to that place of total acceptance. I prefer to have this more relaxed attitude towards myself. Of course if it became a habit, that would not be good and it would only feed the insomnia.
Also, about “you should be able to do this at this stage.” When I recovered, it was very quick. I started practicing ACT diligently in July, and was cured in less than two weeks. Then when I relapsed, when I got back with the program it only took 3 days. So in some ways I haven’t had to experience the struggles that many of you have had where it has taken much longer to heal. So maybe I need to experience some of this and it will help me in the long run. Of course, I’m not going to ask for it!
Pam – if you want to get the emails again, unsubscribe here at the top. Then come back in a day or two and subscribe again. It’s weird though, because sometimes I get the emails and sometimes I don’t. For instance, I got the email when Mac posted after you, but not when you posted.
Hi Pam – that’s great that you’re doing so much better! Thanks for your encouragement too. I’m not really worried about not getting better. It’s just a phase. Just curious, how does your sleep compare to how it was before? What time would you go to bed and get up, how long would you sleep, how many times would you wake up and for how long, how was the quality of your sleep (deep or shallow), etc?
Mac – I’m ok with what I’m doing, but thanks anyway. I don’t consider it SC because I’m not getting up every half hour to try to break the connection between sleeplessness and the bed. I just know myself and when I can’t change my state of mind just lying there in bed. I know it’s a step back but I accept that that’s ok too. One step back, but many steps forward.
My recovery is taking longer this time for some reason. Oh well. I guess I’m just meant to learn some new things. The night before last I got frustrated after having the previous good night, being able to fall asleep within 20 minutes. I had thought I was on my way to recovery and might fall asleep quickly. But I laid in bed for hours. Anyway, I know that frustration is not compatible with falling asleep, but it was really hard to get out of that place. Eventually I got up and it was about 2:15. I had a drink and read until almost 3:00 and went back to bed and fell asleep. Slept until 8:30 so I was decent yesterday. Last night I was able to have the right attitude and just accept whatever happens. It took an hour or two but then I fell asleep. Slept again until 8:30 and feel good today. Will just try to keep up the right attitude no matter what happens. But if I just can’t change my attitude some nights, oh well. I’ll count it as a loss but then get back on the horse the next day.
Hi Jamie – that’s awesome that you’re doing so much better! To unsubscribe, just go to the top of this page and hit the unsubscribe button. I wonder if you would also need to uncheck the little blue box below where it says “Notify me of follow-up replies via email.” In that case, you might have to do it every time. You’re right about none of us being pros, but just experts on our own recoveries. I find it best to follow our own intuition and do what feels right for us – just like you’re doing. But if stuck or nothing is working, then talk to a pro.
I’m still not complete recovered, but getting there. The night before last I was awake a few hours. But I stayed in bed and didn’t use any props and eventually fell asleep. I slept in an extra hour so I felt fine all day. Last night it only took about 20 minutes.
Mac – so it sounds like you’re most comfortable with going to bed at 10 or 10:30, so maybe you should stick with that. But if you’re very tired (like on the days you didn’t sleep well the night before), go to bed at 10:00 because you probably need more sleep. Then when you wake up, practice ACT. Use whatever tools which will help you get to the place of acceptance of the sleeplessness. If there’s frustration or other negative emotions, don’t give in to them. Use mindfulness, welcoming or whatever will help you let them go so that you can relax and accept whether or not you will sleep. I found it helpful to tell myself that I’m “resting” so that there were no expectations. I think over time, like Steve, you’ll start falling back asleep more easily and the length of solid sleep will increase.
Thanks for sharing Steve. No new YouTube singing videos. Working on some songs though. So it looks like your sleep window is about 8 hours and your sleep is gradually getting better within that time period, with longer periods of sleep before waking up and then being able to fall back to sleep more easily.
Mac – before I answer your question about when to go to bed (if I even can) I have a few questions. Before the insomnia what time did you usually go to bed and wake up? Since starting ACT, what has been your sleep schedule – go to bed, wake up time? During the periods where you have been sleeping pretty good since ACT, when would you wake up and how many hours of sleep would you get? What’s your absolute minimum number of hours to sleep in order to avoid being a zombie?
I practiced SC when I was first doing CBT-I with Martin, but hated it. I stopped doing it when I started ACT. Like Steve said, I just get up once in awhile and journal to clear my mind when I can tell it will just be a waste of time to stay in bed with my mind all stirred up with anxiety.
Steve – glad you’ve had 3 good nights. Hope it continues for you. Just curious, have your awakenings shifted at all to being later in the night since doing ACT? So are you getting longer amounts of sleep before you wake up or are you still waking up after just a few hours? What’s a typical night for you? When do you go to sleep, when do you set your alarm for, and when do you usually have the early morning awakenings? How has your sleep improved since using ACT?
About mindfulness, I was never that great about practicing it even though I took an 8 week class on it for $400. But I was good at getting to the place of acceptance of sleeplessness. But sometimes it took writing in my journal to “catch myself in the act” of struggling and then shift to acceptance.
I slept well last night. Crossing my fingers that this continues.
