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Daf – I was wondering how long you slept before the insomnia. Were you sleeping 5 to 6 hours then? I slept an average of 8 or more hours before the insomnia and now am sleeping the same amount. I’m a grandma, so I’m not a youngster and yet still need plenty of sleep.
As far as Da (David) needing less sleep since he is getting older, according to my calculations, he’s only 23! So he probably needs more than 5 or 6 hours to feel good and sleep well like he did before the insomnia.
David – The Sleep Book is all about ACT and is written by Dr. Guy Meadows who developed the ACT insomnia therapy. The book is the best resource on this. He also has a class on his website but it costs a lot more than the book. Martin explains CBT-I very well on this website. He’s got a bunch of free resources here including a free course, videos, and podcasts. Maybe the best place for you start if you want try CBT-I is with Martin’s free course.
Unfortunately like you said, on the internet there aren’t much specifics about insomnia therapies. So you really have to turn to books and it’s hard to know which books to read. The Sleep Book is the best and probably the only book on ACT and there are some out there on CBT-I. But I think Martin’s explanation is good enough here. If you want any suggestions of books on CBT-I I can give you a couple names.
That is tough, Mac. I hope you can still manage to accept whatever happens but I know it will be harder to do.
Glad you’re doing better this week, Mac. Yes, it’s going to take time. Just continue doing what you’re doing, remaining calm and accepting instead of panicking when you have a bad night. Then over time your brain will believe that the bed is a safe place and will relax. Of course it helps a lot when you actually do have good nights!
Da – I don’t know why I only slept good 5 nights using SRT. That’s just the nature of this beast. Every night I never knew whether or not I was going to be able to sleep. So the anxiety was always there. I felt like I was barely escaping my anxiety every night when I fell asleep. If I feel asleep within a few minutes then I was good to go all night, but if not, then the anxiety took over and I was up until 3 or 4. That’s why I finally decided to try ACT – to address the anxiety directly.
The Sleep Book is only $12 at Amazon (plus shipping) and I really think it’s worth every penny you have to buy it if it will help you get over this monster of insomnia and get your life back. I have read some sections 2 or 3 times to help me get the hang of it. I can’t really explain it here in just a couple paragraphs. What will help you the most is to get the book and really delve deeply into it to understand it, and then start practicing it. You said earlier that you did heavy research. Then you must have heard about CBT-I at least, if not ACT. These are the only therapies I’ve heard of that actually work, and they have research to back it up. So if you want to get better, commitment is needed – either to CBT-I or ACT. You can do it now with the help of Martin’s CBT-I resources here and the forum, or you can wait until you join the reserves and can afford professional help. If I were you I wouldn’t want to wait. I would want to get my life back NOW.
Hi Da – that’s too bad that you had such a traumatic separation from your mom. I remember having some of those feelings when I was that age. All of a sudden I was supposed to be a “grown up” and independent, but I really wasn’t ready for it. But I had no choice because my mother had moved to another state with her new husband.
In your research, did you read about CBT-I and ACT? Martin Reed, the founder of this website, has a good explanation of CBT-I here. To get the best explanation of ACT, read Dr. Guy Meadows book, The Sleep Book. All of us practicing ACT here have read it because it’s the best resource for it. It’s easy to read and explains things very well. I contrast the two methods in this way – CBT-I works from the outside in and ACT, from the inside out. With CBT the focus on doing things like sleep restriction (SR) and getting up every half hour when you can’t sleep (SC). Through this method a lot of people start sleeping better, like Jamie has been. It also worked well for me. Within the first week I was sleeping 5-6 hours, 5 days a week. Because you’re sleeping better, your anxiety about sleep starts to go down and over time your sleep gradually improves. ACT works in the opposite way. The focus is on your thinking. You learn to start thinking differently about insomnia as well as techniques that help calm the anxiety. As your anxiety is reduced, then your sleep improves.
I did CBT-I first with Martin. I averaged 5 good nights a week and it greatly increased my confidence to sleep and reduced my anxiety. But when I heard about ACT I decided to switch to it because I knew I still had the anxiety the other 2 nights and I wanted to deal with it directly. It worked great for me. Now I’m very relaxed about sleep, taking naps if needed and not worrying if now and then I stay up late or sleep in late. Usually I don’t nap though because I’m sleeping so well that I don’t need to nap.
Just curious – is your insomnia of the sleep inset or sleep maintenance type? Sleep onset is when you have a hard time falling asleep the beginning of the night. That’s what I had. Sleep maintenance is when you fall asleep fine but then wake up too early and can’t fall back asleep. All of us here on the forum have had one or the other type, and sometimes both.
That’s a nice place to live, right there on the beach! There is hope for your sleep. I sleep like I used to before the insomnia, averaging over 8 hours. You can get back to the point where you can do things that you used to like take naps or go out late, but better to keep good sleep hygiene and don’t sleep 10 hours! Also, keep a consistent schedule as much as possible. My go to bed and wake up time varies by plus or minus 30 minutes. I don’t think going out occasionally should hurt though.
That’s really nice that the two of you could get together! Talking to her must have been very helpful and hopeful since she’s doing well.
I doubt anyone lives nearby me, here in Huntsville, AL. My rocket scientist husband dragged me here kicking and screaming many years ago. Now I’m used to it, but family and long time friends live far away.
Jamie – so glad that SR has worked well for you and you’re getting better! Just curious is Bianca on this forum?
Gdsmom – hope things get better for you soon and you can enjoy the holidays.
Mac – Here’s a brief summary:
I had sleep onset insomnia and started my therapy with 8 weeks of CBT-I with Martin coaching me. SRT worked well for me, averaging 5 good nights a week. I did a little of SC, but not much. Mostly I just struggled the 2 nights that SRT didn’t work. I heard about ACT about my 7th week in and decided to try it out on my own after the CBT with Martin was finished. Amazingly I started falling asleep within a short time after about the first or second night. I used the “welcoming tools” to calm down any anxiety and then practiced “acceptance” of whatever sleep I got (or didn’t) each night. My sleep was very shallow with lots of dreams and the in and out type of sleep, and I woke up tired. I started worrying about the shallow sleep and tried to implement SR, thinking that shortening my sleep might help deepen my sleep. It didn’t help and soon my sleep went to hell. I went back on SRT and my sleep got back to way it was before, with 5 good nights per week. After about 7 weeks I got frustrated again with the 2 bad nights, realizing that the anxiety was still there beneath the surface. I decided to give ACT one more try and this time I hired Dr. Kat from Dr. Meadow’s group for a few sessions. She helped me understand that shallow sleep in the beginning was normal and that it would take time for my brain to calm down after being traumatized from so many months of insomnia. When I started again I had a bad night or two but then soon I was falling asleep relatively quickly and having the shallow sleep. I practiced “acceptance” which helped me fall asleep. Within two weeks my sleep deepened and I was sleeping pretty normally.
Two months later I had my first relapse. I got back on ACT and within a few nights I was sleeping normally again. The relapse and quick recovery from it helped me gain a lot more confidence in my ability to sleep. In comparison to others who have been practicing ACT, my recovery was very short. For most others it seems to take at least a few months.
Any other questions, Mac?
Didn’t mention that I don’t worry about sleeping in either. During our trip we were very relaxed and slept in a couple times until around 8:00. Had no problem sleeping those nights.
Hi Mac – I’ve become very relaxed about my sleep, going to bed usually between 10:30 and 11:00 and waking up between 7:00 and 7:30. I don’t worry whether I’m sleepy enough or not. If I’m not, it may take a little longer to fall asleep but it’s no big deal. It’s just like it was before the insomnia – no worries. I traveled the last few days and had no sleeping problems then either. Feeling back to normal finally. You’ll get there too.
Hi Burn – Great to hear from you! Glad you are getting better, even though it’s been slow going. You’re on the right track. Glad also that you can enjoy this holiday season!
Glad you’re not panicking, Mac. Although I had quick results with ACT, most people here have not. It’s worked, but it’s just taken longer, which might be your case. You got quick results with SRT, but ACT can take longer because your whole system needs time to heal. You know that the anxiety has been with you for 3 years even though you had periods of good sleep. It was always there underneath the surface and would keep popping up. Now you’re finally learning to calm it. So it’s going to take some time to heal from 3 years of trauma. So just keep doing what you’re doing – not getting panicky, not trying to fiddle with your hours to try to fix things, and just accept whatever happens when you wake up.
It’s possible that these first few weeks of using ACT were a “honeymoon” period of feeling optimistic about trying something new, so you slept well. That was the case for me. Then I had to face the reality that I still had anxiety to deal with. That happened to me twice with CBT after about the 4th week. I had some bad nights and then worried that I wasn’t getting any better. But I just had to keep going and eventually I got back into a good cycle again.
Remember Carlos in the book, who took two weeks to learn to completely relax in bed, but two months to finally sleep better. It took time. Gdsmom here said that beginning this month, she finally had a turning point. She’s been at this for a few months. So just try to have a long term view that this might take awhile and try not get impatient. I guess that’s one advantage us older folks here on the forum have – we’re more patient because through lots of experience we’ve seen how some things just take time to get better. You will get better over time, the more and more you learn to relax and not worry about your sleep. Your brain will heal and your sleep will improve.
Gdsmom – yeah I sort of freaked out when I had my first relapse. First I went into denial thinking “Oh no! I can’t be relapsing. I’m over this!” I slipped into my old habit of my white Russians to force myself to sleep for a few nights. I got confused thinking that maybe my recovery was just a fluke and I hadn’t really recovered and it was just too good to be true. Then I took a couple trips and used Ambien because I was afraid I couldn’t sleep. Finally after about 3 weeks and the last trip, I started doing ACT again and lo and behold, I was back to normal in just a few days! Now I know that I don’t have to fear a relapse.
We’ve all been there and insomnia is horrible. It’s caused by anxiety though, so pills will not help you. You become conditioned to associate going to bed with anxiety. So you need therapy specifically for insomnia that will break the conditioning. There are two types of therapy. One is called cognitive behavior therapy for insomnia (CBT-I) and Martin Reed, the founder of this website explains it here and is a wonderful coach. He also has a free course here. Another is based on a therapy called ACT and was developed by Dr. Guy Meadows. You can find information about this on his website, The Sleep School. Also, he has a book, The Sleep Book, that explains it very well. Many of us on the ACT for Insomnia thread read the book and are having good results. Some people get faster results with CBT-I though. Another good resource is the book, The Effortless Sleep Method, by Sasha Stephens. It’s similar to CBT-I.
You don’t have to continue to suffer. I had insomnia for 10 months but now have recovered. I was miserable and very low, so I was so relieved to find therapy that worked.
Yes, I haven’t felt bad about taking Ambien every now and then either. I’m taking it with me when I travel this week, just in case. I know it causes worry when you have a bad night, but sounds like you’re getting back on track. The last few weeks have shown you that you can sleep well, so you’ll do it again. I had my first relapse after 2 months. But when I saw how I was able to get back on track, my anxiety about a relapse went way down. I think yours will too.
