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Suren – I wonder why you weren’t tired or sleepy last night. You said you had another bad so I’m assuming you did the night before as well. Therefore, you should have been tired at night. Maybe it’s adrenaline keeping you awake, but underneath that is tiredness. I know for myself when I had bad nights, it was adrenaline that got me through the next day. And then at night it was hard to sleep because I was wired, just like an overtired kid who can’t settle down. Anyway, I wonder if you start getting the hang of mindfulness and you begin getting a taste of what “presence” feels like, or being in the moment, you’ll get more in touch with the tiredness and then it will be easier to go to sleep. Just a thought.
Sure – When I was doing CBT-I I stayed up until 12:00 a.m. when my sleep window began. The only exception was if I wasn’t sleepy enough. Then I went to bed later when I became sleepy. With ACT I went back to my normal bedtime which was between 10:30 and 11:00, usually closer to 11:00. The first week I was always tired by that time because I wasn’t sleeping well. As my sleep started to improve I just kept to same bedtime schedule. I wasn’t necessarily really “sleepy” which is required with CBT-I but it was the normal tiredness like I felt before the insomnia.
I get the feeling from book that not watching TV is not strict rule. With ACT there are no strict rules, just guides, but you can always adapt them. I would think that because it helped you relax before, it might help you now as long as you don’t watch something that is overstimulating. You could always experiment. The main point of ACT is to learn to relax and if this helps you relax, then why not? I bent the “rules” myself when I would sleep until 8 or 8:30 on the mornings when I would wake up tired. I’d let myself stay in bed and doze another hour or hour & a half and then I felt so much better when I finally got up. So it was worth it and overall it helped me relax, which again is the whole point.
Hi Suren – It sounds like you’re making good progress, going from 1-2 hours of sleep per night, to 3 hours the first week and then 4 hours the next. That’s great progress! About the sleep window, I just recommend that it be consistent. Dr. Guy gives a leeway of 30 minutes on either end of the window.
Another person who has used mindfulness effectively is Borgesbi. Check out her post on page 35 where she describes what she does. She said when she first started she did her mindfulness exercises before going to bed instead of in bed. The first night it took 2 hours to get herself to a place of calm and acceptance. Then the next couple nights it took 30 minutes and after that just a few minutes. This sounds like a good idea for anyone who just feels too much anxiety while in bed.
I’m just curious what you did for wind down before you had insomnia? Can’t you just go back to that? For myself, reading always relaxes me.
Steve – I’m glad to hear that you’re doing better than two weeks ago. You’re making progress! About the “ping” I would ask Martin about that. I’m sure he’s heard about everything.
Gdsmom – My first week my sleep was all over the place too with 2 sleepless nights. But then it started to stabilize and get more consistent. Glad you had some great nights with lots of energy the next day. I remember last Sunday thinking to myself after a good night of sleep, it’s great to feel wide awake! But it makes sense that there’s some anxiety about having a bad night after the good one, but just keep using the tools and I’m sure you’ll get better. I felt a little of that anxiety this past Sunday night after the great day. I wasn’t sleepy enough at the usual time when I went to bed, so I got up and read for awhile and then went back to bed and fell asleep right away.
Steve – I’m glad to help out because I know how miserable insomnia is, having had it for 9 months myself. I know that some people say they just don’t want to come back to the forum once they’re doing better, because it can trigger their insomnia just by thinking about it. Also of course, they want to forget the nightmare which I completely understand! But it seems with ACT, because it deals directly with anxiety, I feel no anxiety at all talking or thinking about insomnia, even after I’ve recovered.
Mac – So great to hear from you and to know that you’re doing well! You might want to try some of the ACT tools to help calm yourself at night before a special event. Some of the folks here have been using them and it’s worked well to decrease their anxiety.
Andy – I did CBT-I for 4 months but was frustrated because I still felt the underlying anxiety was always there and I was consistently having 2 bad nights a week. I switched over to ACT because it gets to the core of the problem and deals directly with our anxiety. It took several starts and stops but once I understood what I was doing and fully committed myself, I recovered in less than two weeks.
Yay Nik! You’re doing great and you might recover more quickly than you think, just like it was for me. You can always cancel your appointment, but I think it has to be done within 14 days of scheduling it. You could make another appointment if you needed it.
I love the way you said “this feels like a tectonic shift for me!” For myself on about the 9th night I also felt a huge shift. I felt like I was falling through a vortex where on the other side I would be fully healed. It felt so comforting and wonderful – and I knew at that moment that I was on the way to recovery.
Welcome Featherly – Glad to have you here. I think in the 4th chapter Dr. Guy talks about a client who stayed in bed for 12 hours. He had him “restrict” it to 8 hours. So there’s a lot more flexibility with sleep times with ACT. What helps us to sleep in this program is not so much sleep drive, but learning to relax. I’m semi-retired so I can sleep in if needed. I went to bed every night around 11:00, and if I was tired in the morning because of light sleep all night, I dozed until 8 or 8:30. My light sleep deepened quickly however and soon I started waking up at my usual time between 7 and 7:30.
In The Sleep Book, Dr. Guy talks about how just resting at night in bed instead of struggling to fall asleep while tossing and turning, will help you have more energy the next day.
Nao – I did CBT-I for 2 months twice and during that time I averaged 2 bad nights and 5 good nights a week. I made good progress with CBT, but always felt that my underlying anxiety was still there. During that time I heard about another therapy called ACT and read The Sleep Book by Dr. Guy Meadows. This therapy goes to the root of insomnia by dealing with the anxiety directly. I switched to ACT and when I finally understood how to do and committed myself fully to it, I recovered amazing in less than two weeks. There are some other people trying it out now on the thread “Support Group for People doing SR.” This therapy might help to reduce your anxiety so that you won’t keep having these relapses.
Hi Dad – don’t worry, there’s a cure for insomnia, although I know how it is feeling overwhelmed at the moment. I had insomnia for 9 months and it was awful. But I’ve recovered now, so you’re not gonna die! From this website Martin Reed teaches people how to practice cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (CBT-I) which can cure insomnia. Also, there’s one more therapy based on something called acceptance, commitment therapy (ACT) which works as well.
These two books can help you:
“The Effortless Sleep Method” by Sasha Stephens
“The Sleep Book” by Dr. Guy MeadowsIn the meantime, check out some of the threads where people are getting better.
Wow! You guys are doing so well!
Steve – that’s great you got 6 hours of sleep, that your sleep is getting deeper, that maybe that first wake-up is starting to disappear, and that the tools are working well for you. You just keep going forward continuing to make admirable progress!
Gdsmom – I’m so happy that you feel good today after a good night’s sleep and you’re able to enjoy your family. You’ve got a lot of courage to not give in to the pills and discipline yourself to do what you know you need to do.
Pam – good to hear from you, glad you’re reading the book and feeling hopeful after so many years. I can’t imagine struggling that long with this. My 9 months was nothing compared to what you’ve been through.
Last night was a little bit of a test for me. I wrote a new song, and whenever I do, it goes through my brain all day and into the night as well. I laid in bed a long time (an hour or two) but the melody just wouldn’t turn off! So finally I got up, read for awhile and went back to bed. Fell asleep right away and got up rested. At this point the anxiety is really minuscule, so I’m finding that I can deal with all different circumstances with confidence that my sleep won’t be a problem. Hurrah!
Steve – I was surprised too how I wasn’t that tired during the day. Thankfully, at least not zombie-tired.
Gdsmom – During my first week with ACT there were ups and downs with nights of no sleep, a few hours of sleep, light sleep, then no sleep again. After that it started to get consistently better.
Just my 2 cents. I think your sleeping pills may be getting in the way of your progress. For myself, every time I took an Ambien, I had to start all over again. I was teaching my brain that I couldn’t learn to sleep naturally. When I finally gave them up, then I started to get more consistent sleep. But I’m no expert on pills. For myself though, the pills were sabotaging my efforts. In the book, (pg. 54-55) Dr. Guy talks about weaning oneself off pills gradually. But just like anything else, you would have to do it consistently, with a plan so that your brain/body gets used to the new routine. Like Dr. Kat said, it needs to be a “decision” and not a “reaction.” If you’re only taking them when you get frustrated though, then you’re setting yourself back each time.
Sounds like you’re making good progress, Steve. You’re spending most of the night in sleep, even if broken up. And you’re falling asleep quicker after you wake up. Also, it sounds like your light sleep is starting to improve since you say you didn’t remember waking up as much. That’s how it was for me. On my 8th day I started to notice that I wasn’t waking up as much. I’d wake up in the morning and not remember much of anything from the night, unlike when I was in and out of sleep all night, I always remembered it. Also, since you’re increasing your sleep window, that will give you more sleep too. Hopefully with this and more consolidated sleep instead of the light sleep, you’ll start feeling better during the day. All of this will feed messages to your brain that you can relax more and more about sleep. And who knows, you might recover faster than you think! I was shocked by how quickly I recovered. I was expecting it would take a couple months, but it took less than two weeks!
Today on the way to church I told my husband that it was amazing to feel completely AWAKE instead of always tired like I have been for the last 9 months. At church a couple people even commented on how bright my face looked and how much more energetic I was. What a change!
How’s everyone doing? I’m celebrating just under two weeks of great sleep! I stopped doing the sleep diary last week because my sleep looks all the same – good every night.
How are some of you we haven’t heard from in awhile – Mac, Delv, Daf?
Daf – you are the one who first introduced me to ACT, so I am very grateful to you for that!
If you’re getting nowhere with the office, you can email Dr. Guy directly. It’s the same ending as the office email except with “guy” in front instead of “info.” When I got completely frustrated about something I emailed him directly and finally I got response from him.
