[RDet]

P.S I just saw a video by Martin— the herbals I am taking is called a “safety behavior” so that is a form of effort to make sleep happen. hmmmm But then so is a sleep window and so is sleep hygiene efforts(cold room, no light, not eating before bed etc) right?

[RDet]

whiskers25:
please tag me on your future posts. I want to follow along since your experience and mine are very similar. Thanks

Where I am at…. I had some success last week about 7 days in a row where I slept for 5-6 hours each night. I really thought I turned the corner. It was a bit fragmented sleep, but I liked it. Only used some herbals as an aid. Figured I can accept the need for herbals(not cannabis) long term if need be or I could easily taper herbal use should I desire in future.
Then 2 nights ago I got 3-4 hours of sleep, then last night I hit the bed even with a strong sleep drive only to be wide awake. I felt I have been playing with insomnia too long and that I needed a break and used a sleep aid. IOW I did not want to experience any of this–I needed a vacation from insomnia. This really went against my values and who I wanted to ultimately be so badly that one pill was ineffective so I ended up taking 2 . Wow, this really reinforced to me how powerful the mind is. Who knows, maybe the herbals had a counter effect on the prescription med? More likely, I told my mind that I am struggling here so much that I needed 2 pills to fall asleep. I should have used the tools learned here to deal with this situation and fully experience it. Instead, I didn’t follow my values and my mind went into overdrive protective mode. I would have been far better not taking the pills at all. Hindsight is always 20/20. Last night was my foot in the cold pool analogy. I did not dive in. I am not too worried though–there will be more cold pools to come.

What I learned from this recent experience:
1) that the mind is clearly very powerful at what it does first hand. Perhaps the herbals were just a placebo effect, and or my negative thoughts about resorting to the sleeping pills amped me up enough that one did not do the job. Either way, it demonstrated the power of the mind.
2) since the mind is clearly so powerful, I have fully committed my mind to follow the philosophical notion …. the absence of struggle is freedom in itself. IOW I set up my sleep window, I will take some herbals, bc it cant hurt and is congruent with my values, and if I sleep that would be great. If not, I know I will eventually if not this night then possible the next. If its only a few hours or no hours, that is fine too. If I want to, I stay in bed and engage in non sleep deep rest . If not, I will be set up to do other things I always wanted to do but never made the time. As Martin said, I clearly don’t have control over sleep but I do have control over how I deal with the wakefulness. Isn’t this ultimately what this course is all about? Can it suck–yeah but it sucks already so what is the difference? Hopefully, as my mind breaks this association struggle with not sleeping as I desire, my mind will feel less need to keep me awake for that battle. I can always resort to prescription drugs in the future should I choose to. Right now, I really do not want to. Furthermore, I can certainly think of a lot more dire/ grave problems to have in this world than my sleep. In short I must try my best to help myself with the things I can control.

Thanks for the opportunity to rant. I normally would never be so candid much less on a forum like this, but this episode in my life has been transformative in so many ways.

Hmmmm…. after writing this, maybe I am making progress in some subtle ways? I never would have had these viewpoints a few months ago.

Thanks for listening. I hope others get a modicum of something positive from this. We are not alone that is for sure.

[RDet]

Whiskers25:

Not all people that have chronic insomnia are in rebound insomnia from withdrawal. There are plenty of forum posts with your/our similar wakefulness situation that have not withdrew from anything. Please keep that in mind as well. Its sort of being kind to yourself.

[RDet]

Whiskers25:
I get where you are at. All of it. I don’t know your specifics as what you are withdrawing from of the reason why you used what you did, but it does suck what you are going through. Unfortunately, the medical profession did not have much in the way of help for me. Oh don’t get me wrong. There are medicines out there that can provide a temporary “gulp of air” from the seemingly crushing thoughts and feelings that you are currently experiencing; however, another set of problems can arise from that approach as well.

With that said, please don’t underestimate the power of breathing. It is cheap, it is free, and it is readily available. YT has all kinds of videos on this. It does help with anxiety and it might quell some of your thoughts and feelings just enough to allow more perspective. It is just a tool you might find helpful and allow that rest Martin talks about rather than battling with yourself in bed.

[RDet]

Martin,
First, you are amazing at what you say and how you say it. Very logical stuff. Well said about the aforementioned withdrawal comment. I need to post that on my wall opposite of my bed. However, with withdrawal there is a definite cause and effect, that makes it hard(er) to keep guilt and other emotions at bay–for me that is.
My decades use of cannabis for sleep was working well for me, so I thought, until it waned. I reacted with the notion if it is no longer working as well, why do it anymore? So, I quit figuring, where I was currently at with sleep would be my new baseline and possibly I could build from there. If I could not build from there, it was not the end of the world. Boy, I really learned what insomnia was all about when I stopped using the drug. Obviously, it was not the relatively inert, natural, peace and love medication I thought it was and has so commonly been purported to be. Suddenly, I was dealing with fright(will I ever recover toward sleeping again?, am I broken?), and guilt(I did this to myself) as well as many other thoughts and emotions arose. I realize that my insomnia situation was there way back in the past, hence the self-medication; however, I clearly added to the condition I have today. I can make up excuses such as: I didn’t have time for ACT such as this or this sort of therapy wasn’t available years ago, and or I am much older now so sleep has changed for me. However, the dramatic and profound change in my sleep in such a short timeframe upon cessation, has made finding my footing again regarding sleep unbelievably arduous. Unfortunately, this new found revelation of how bad things can be regarding sleep has taken on a life of it’s own and is self perpetuating as Martin clearly points out. Hence my presence here. So, whisker25, if withdrawal is part of your equation, you are not alone. I feel your frustration, guilt and discomfort et al.. I would love to hear your history but obviously this is not the venue. Instead, I am writing this to help support you and others that happen upon this post in the future. Lets keep that open mind Martin asked us to have at the beginning of this program. It took time to get here and it will take time to get out of here too. Lets hope for sooner than later though.

[RDet]

I would like to know this too!

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