Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Oh no, it’s always nice to receive your notes. Guess the boost of energy has also got you doing lots!;)
I think it’s good to find a routine that works for you and stick to it. I joined a local gym around mid-quarantine, as it forced me to get moving in the mornings and get my blood flowing – so to speak. Truth is, I love running, but just this week I decided to table it for a few months to see if it helps my body to heal. So hard though. Went for a walk on a trail, and everyone was jogging and cycling by ..and I looked at them so enviously! Haha
Totally understand about taking a break from work. I had done that too, but my bills started to mount, and being single- it’s not like I have anyone to financially lean on. But working from home because of quarantine makes things more manageable. I’m not a library person either, but go ham for book stores.
No breakthroughs just yet, but I’m making little changes; like trying to meditate at least once a day, so hope to see a glimmer of improvement soon. A few weeks ago I was in a much better space tbh.
Oh cool, so we’re about the same age. I had thought you were like a teenager haha.
Aah, you can ignore the previous note whenever it’s released from moderation. Let me know if you’re on Spotify. Also what types of podcasts do you listen to?
It’s always nice to receive your notes, so no worries there. Also, I responded to your note a couple days ago, but looks like my reply is once again held up in moderation.
No breakthroughs just yet, in fact I was faring much better a few weeks back. This can be particularly frustrating, as you want to be able to see some progress – even if marginal!
Having a routine is great, especially when you have one that works. I’m very organized in my personal life, so I’ve always had a routine for the most part. I mentioned how I used to run in the gym for an hour each day. That changed to 30 mins every other day since the insomnia, and this week I completely eliminated all running. I walk for 15 minutes each day on the treadmill. Funny thing, is that a short run in the morning used to make me feel so energized, whereas a 15 minute walk (at a moderate paste) makes me feel so weary and fatigued! Not sure why!
But now I’ve given up my workout, there are not many sources of dopamine left;) So totally hear you about not being a Library person. My life used to feel so exciting before, but having gone thru all the pain and suffering with the insomnia, I feel like it’s shifted my perspective on what qualifies an exciting experience.
Totally understand about not working thru all this. I had taken time off work, but my bills quickly mounted, and knew I had to find a way to keep all the balls afloat. So navigating work and sleep has been a juggling act. But these days, I’m more mindful about slowing things down- even if it’s just to sit in silence for a few minutes a day. How often do you meditate? And do you do it at home? Also what’s your sleep window now, or do you not use one at all?
Another thing- is that I had purchased an Alpha-stim device. Not sure if you’ve heard of this. I was using it for a few minutes a day, and I noticed that it was making me quasi-sleepy at night. However, the minute I stopped using it, the effect went away. I’m in a bit of a quandary on whether to use it again, as I feel like it could become a crutch- and I want to be able to get to a place where my body is feeling sleepy on its own accord.
The final thing- is that I also tried scaling back on the TV. So last night, I decided no TV after 7pm. What a nightmare it was! I literally forced myself to read for a full hour (a novel that one some literary price where the husband ended up killing his wife to please his clan!), then listened to one of my favorite podcasts, then had absolutely nothing to do! Do you have any good podcasts to share?
Hi Jess, It’s sounds like your sleep has greatly improved, which gives me hope!;)
You’re so right about everything you said. All the things that the both of us have implemented in the past that never worked, including the all-nighters- it now makes load of sense.
I do get out a bit, not for any significant time though. A couple of months ago, I joined a local gym just to push me to leave the house. I go to the gym about 3-4 times a week, and recently I’ve tried to scale back the intensity and duration of my work outs. Keeping up with my gym sessions is probably not wise, but I used to model professionally- so it’s important for me to try to preserve myself physically thru all this, especially when you’re a female.
I also work remotely during the day, and have a ton of meetings, so being in a library or coffee shop where they require you to speak at low volumes may not work. Plus, I’m quite restless and get bored sitting in one place for more than 2 hours lol
I do a ton of errands during the day, and have also resumed taking short evening walks. I’m trying to get better at meditation- which I agree will help the mind chatter. I try deep breathing but it’s so hard to do. Do you have any videos or so that you recommend?
When things took a nose dive a week or so go, I resumed a sleep-dairy, as I felt that tracking my progress would instill a bit of hope. I may not keep this practice up though.
You seem quite young- do you mind me asking are you a college student? You speak of libraries a lot, and I dread libraries and the whole college atmosphere vibe.
Another question I have – when you talked about recovering in the past- was it from the same light sleep cycle? And how long had it persists in the past? Also, it’s so good to have met you on here, as until now – I felt I was the only one on this forum that was experiencing the light sleep thing. To many, it seemed like a foreign concept, so I always felt like I was in a world apart from everyone on here.
I responded a bit ago. I thought my post was held up as it’s being moderated, but it still hasn’t been posted. So this is a much shorter response.
First of all, good to hear you’re faring well. Things have been a bit tough, so no glowing reports to share. I used to do the warm shower thing a bit ago, as well as getting in a bit of exercise in the early evening. The warm shower did relax me a bit, but didn’t keep it up. It’s also gotten quite cold here, so would require a lot of willpower to remain active as the winter weather approaches.
Are you keeping a sleep dairy by chance? Also what’s your new sleep window? Perhaps you no longer have one. I tried the warm shower and went for a walk after reading your response, but got the same dismal response.
Another thing, do you ever experience a ton of mental chatter when sleeping? I didn’t at first, but with time, that’s one of the things that I noticed.
It may feel long, but I read thru it fairly quickly, so no worries. It seems like you no longer attribute the light sleep to insufficient sleep drive and not being tired enough?
Yes, what we’re experiencing is so puzzling. I can see how having a counselor that have direct experience with insomnia can be helpful. Did your counselor also experience the light sleep state? Which state is your counselor in?
Well I’m glad that you’re getting a bit of rest now, even if it’s not of the refreshing kind. I also like the concept of not accrediting too much importance to the sleep issue, but this may be easier in theory than practice. But I also need to work on this area as well. As most days, I feel so frustrated with the whole thing.
I’m not sure anymore how to tackle this thing. I’ve tried so many methods. But I do feel that I need to have an approach and stick to it for a bit. Just need to think about what that will be.
Same! And I’ve had specialists say to me in the past “well you may be experiencing MSR”, sleep state misconception, where you perceive being asleep as wakefulness, but I’ve quelled this theory by giving them real test data, then they’re befuddled, as they’re completely incapable of thinking outside of the box.
Totally understand the compulsion to orchestrate an all-nighter; you get to the point where you think ….enough is enough, and just want to end all the needless suffering, even if that requires something drastic. Well at least you made it to 5:30, in my case I only got to 2:00, and I crashed ..and not even from sleepiness but sheer exhaustion. And like you, I felt so terrible and incapacitated after, with all kinds of aches and pains.
OK, well it seems like you’ve given things quite a bit of thought. I’m thinking something similar, to maintain a sleep window and just accept the light sleep for a bit longer, and see what follows. Does your therapist advocate for you to use a strict sleep window? Mine doesn’t, but I’m thinking it may be helpful. Also, are you keeping a sleep diary?
Appreciate your note Martín, but like Jess alluded to in an earlier communication, our intuition is a lot more reliable than medical studies and machines. I’m also in my 30s, so well in advance of the phase/age where deep sleep is notably reduced. I’d submit that restorative sleep is also not just a function of how tired one feels upon waking up; N3 sleep is the stage where your body heals, releases toxins and growth hormones, and cellular repair happens. And while it’s appears to be an uncharted area, more and more people are reporting not accessing deeper stages of sleep- so I hope at some point sleep specialists will set down their rigid views backed by science and see the validity in these reports. Once that happens, a broader segment of insomnia sufferers will be better supported.
Thanks for the useful tip as well Jess. I do try to get outside and expose myself to light and breathe fresh air in the early morning, especially when the cold weather does not deter from getting outdoors.
You mention being able to sleep soundly during the naps. That sounds awesome! Have the quality of your naps deepened since the all-nighter practice? On average, how many times a week do you nap? I only ever nap when I get out of bed earlier than planned to go sit on my couch, and when super exhausted. For the most part, I try to avoid naps, at least for now.
If you nap earlier in the day, you’re less likely to feel alert at night, but you should let your body be the guide and nap only if you feel highly fatigued, tired or like you must lie down and close your eyes. I wouldn’t overthink it too much. So if you’re pulling all-nighters in bed, you may feel destroyed upon getting out of bed. That was me this morning; I dragged myself out of bed, and was so fatigued that I lay on my couch and drifted in-and-out of a light nap on my couch. Do you nap on your couch or in your bed?
The other thing that I’ve noticed, is that naps are a really good indicator of my sleep drive. When the insomnia started, my naps were deeper and better quality. Over time, as the light sleep pattern set in, my naps are also light. I’ve had naps where it feels like I’m just lying with my eyes closed, and can hear all the sounds in the street below. But the more destroyed I am, the better the naps seem. I don’t usually put any time restriction on my naps. I’m more concerned with when the nap occurs than the duration- and try to avoid naps after noon- if I can help it.
Regarding the light sleep, there are weeks where it feels like the sleep is akin to being awake, and nights where it feels like some form of light sleep is happening – with the mind cycling thru stories. For instance, last night I got into bed around 11, noticed I was having the light sleep about 2 hrs later. I decided I was going to remain in bed with my eyes open. I kept my eyes open for a while, but after about an hour I drifted into the light sleep again. I was quite destroyed when my alarm went off this morning. I took a nap, but the nap was also light. The nap would prob be deeper if it was a full all-nighter, but when in bed, I am not always able to keep the light sleep at bay.
(PS. I’ve tried pulling all-nighters outside the bedroom before, but have had very little success with those)Thanks Jess, this is super helpful! It’s also great to hear that you’re seeing some progress. Can you share a bit more on your routine? When you say you’ve been doing it for a couple of weeks, are you referring to the all-nighter or the sleep window? Also, how many all nighters a week did you have before you saw some improvement?
Moreover, how do you determine if to do the all nighter or not? Most nights when I get into bed, I feel super fatigued but not sleepy. So my body is tired but my eyes are open and alert. Would you do an all-nighter in this instance?
Lastly, when you are doing the all-nighter, are you watching tv or doing some activity in bed, or just lying with your eyes open? And if so, do you not struggle to keep them open? Do you not get bored in bed?
Logically, an all-nighter makes a ton of sense. The light sleep pattern has become so ingrained that it requires a solution that’s a bit more radical than just strict restriction (which is in itself is not unhelpful) but simply not enough. I don’t know how you can do it while being in bed though, as even if you can keep your eyes open, you may experience micro-sleeps that would defeat the whole exercise.
There’s a guy on YouTube that went for 72 hrs without sleep to do a hard sleep reset, and he said he slept like a baby after. But it was prior to quarantine, and he was able to hang out at a diner, so had bright lights, food and caffeine to keep him up. I won’t want to mess with caffeine though.
I spoke to one sleep therapist who said that I need to retrain the brain to sleep well again, but he had no real solution for how to accomplish that. But the same therapist believed that deep sleep only occurred earlier in the night, and I don’t believe that. I feel that deep sleep does occur at the earlier part of the sleep cycle, but that sleep cycle varies per our cardiac rhythm that’s different for each individual.
In short, I think we know our bodies better than anyone else. It’s true that insomnia persists due to the mental associations given to it, but I feel the light sleep issue stems more from learned behavior. So I’m more for finding a way to disrupt the pattern, but the brain is stubborn and wouldn’t readily give ground.
Kindly disregard the last post. I wrote it like 2 days ago, but it was flagged for moderation so you’re only now seeing it
I have similar thoughts on the sleep studies I’ve taken; they’re not at all aligned with my reality. My sister not very long ago, had a night when she tried to sleep and experienced the light sleep stage that I described. The next day, she said…but that isn’t sleep. How is that sleep? She finally understood what I’ve been trying for so long to describe.
I wasn’t doing CBT for a while, and I recently restarted it. So I shifted from spending 8 …to 5 hours in bed. Now I get up like clock-work after 5 hours, but even this condensed schedule has not helped the light sleep lol. I agree that there must be an un-training of this bad sleep habit, and it’s so easy to rely on and accept it – saying that it’s better than getting no sleep at all- but is it?
Makes total sense. I’ve never been able to pull an all-nighter. I tried a few times, but in the end, fatigue (not sleepiness) does me in. Especially fatigue in the eye area, and then I’m forced to close my eyes for a bit of relief, and the light sleep takes over.
It’s interesting what you shared though, as I recall the 1st time I had deep sleep after the insomnia was when I tried to stay awake in a hotel bed, and the next morning I just kinda crashed for a few hours.
The other thing, is that I have a hard time staying occupied past – say midnight. Prior to the insomnia, I was a bonafide night owl; staying up until 3am on weekends. No energy for that now. Lengthy reading bores me, and after a few hours of TV, I start to zone out (perhaps from all the sleep depth). At that point it’s hard to resist the temptation of jumping into bed.
I started working with a counselor 3 weeks ago, but it’s starting to feel like a waste of time and money. So, I may just ditch her, and experiment with new ways of increasing my level of tiredness before bed. She wants me to implement strict stimulus control, but like you, after two bouts of that, it doesn’t feel like it makes sense, and I want to tune into my intuition.
