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I don’t know how you do it. After a night like last night, I am too exhausted to exercise. Right now, I am trying to keep my eyes open at work. I am also a very bad estimator of time but I don’t clock watch. I will look at the clock once when I wake up or come back from the bathroom as well as once to see if I am near the 30 minute rule. Other than those times, that’s it. I truly can’t estimate time so if I did, my diary would be totally inaccurate.
Thanks Karen. I do stick to the SW religiously. And I do SC most of the time. I modify it a bit so that if 30 minutes come around, I reassess to see if I might be able to fall back asleep. If I might, I stay in bed awhile but when I know I am not going to fall back asleep, I get up. Last night, I just sat in the dark and kept myself awake as I was to exhausted to read. Don’t get me wrong from my posts. I do believe in CBT-i and SR and SC. It’s just that it’s so frustrating to have a couple good nights and then to have a bad night like last night.
I am probably going to sign up with Martin very soon as I need the support. i am in another online CBT-i program (Sleepio – I received the subscription for free) but there is little support except among the “Community” and even that isn’t all that much. What online CBT-i program were you doing before you signed with Martin? I also was using ACT for awhile and it didn’t work well with me, either. That’s why I came back to CBT-i.
So they say. I was stressed out by a lot going on in my life at the time but the triggers are all gone. Only the insomnia remains. Sometimes I wonder if it something didn’t happen during the surgery to cause this.
I always had a problem with not going to bed until I am really sleepy as a lot of times, it’s hard for me to feel that and I would be awake all night. Also, Martin says to keep your SW no less than 5.5 hours. That always confused me. If I waited until I was sleepy, I would be well less than that 5.5 which he recommends. Even doing the SC puts me under the 5.5 so I’m not sure if I should just go to bed at the beginning of my SW and hope I fall asleep or wait and be under the 5.5. Any thoughts?
Well, pretty depressing night last night. Two nights ago, I slept relatively well for a period of a little more than 4 and a half hours, all in one chunk. While it was only one night, I thought I was definitely on the upswing and if I did it for 6 more nights, I could increase my SW by 15 minutes. Then last night came. I knew I was in trouble because I was sleepy when I went to bed but not that sleepy. The result is that I didn’t get to sleep until about 1:30 in the morning and then only slept for 2 hours. I did practice SC and had to get out of bed about three times, twice before I got to sleep originally. It’s like I am in a cycle where I get a good night’s sleep which lowers my sleep drive for the next night and so I sleep terrible that next night which raises my sleep drive for the next night. It’s just a vicious cycle. The only thing that SR has done for me so far is to consolidate my sleep so that it isn’t fragmented. Just have to keep on keeping on. I don’t know how I will ever increase mu SW with these bad sleep nights. It might be time to hire Martin.
Stick with it Pam! It gets a bit easier as you go along. Why don’t you post of your experiences in the thread Support Thread for People Who Are Doing Sleep Restriction? We can give you the moral support in that thread.
Thanks Mac. I appreciate your support. My problem right now seems to be this. I have no sleep buil drive build up for a day and so I sleep terrible that night. Then I am so exhausted the next night I sleep well and feel pretty good the next day. Then because I slept well, I seem to not build up enough sleep drive for that evening and I sleep terrible. The cycle seems to repeat itself. But I will continue with SR as I have no other choice.
Mac – Glad to hear you had a good night even if you did wake up tired. I didn’t know wind down time was a max of 1 hour.
That’s what scares me Mac. I am all over the board. I am consolidating the sleep but I am still anywhere from 3 to 4 and a quarter. And that one hour makes a big difference in how I feel the next day.
Yes, I slept well all through my life and while I had this job. I turned 60 in March.
Hi Linda. Drugs have never worked for me. The only thing that can help chronic insomnia is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia (CBT-i). Martin, who runs this site, has two courses available. A free one and a paid one. Both are good and Martin is a good coach/teacher. Just remember that neither course is easy. If you are interested in CBT-i in general, go up and click on the Resources tab in the menu at the top of the page. You can also find info on the free and paid courses. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
That last post should read when I went to bed MONDAY night, I was asleep when my head hit the pillow.
I think part of the problem is my job. I have a desk job and while I am busy, it doesn’t get me physically tired so I can build sleep drive. Anybody else have this problem?
Last night was just so frustrating it just makes me want to quit, except for the fact that there isn’t anything else for me to do about this insomnia. Two nights ago I had a relatively good sleep and yesterday at work it showed as I was able to focus and concentrate on my job. That was probably because I had a very poor sleep Sunday evening and when I went to bed Sunday night, I was asleep when my head hit the pillow. Anyway, I knew I was probably going to have poor sleep last night because I never felt my sleep drive build. I did some exercising and other work when I got home to tire myself out but when it came time to go to bed, I just didn’t feel it. I went to bed anyway and I did get to sleep in about 10 or 15 minutes but woke up 5 minutes after that. (This is why I say I am not a good estimator of time as I thought I was asleep for about30 minutes but when I looked at the clock, it was only 5 minutes.) I did fall asleep probably about 10 minutes later which was midnight but at promptly 3:00 in the morning, I woke up. I stayed there for about 20 minutes and then did SC for about 25 minutes. Went back to bed but after another 30 minutes, realized it was over for me so I got up and stayed up until it was time for me to get up. This is so frustrating! I am sick of these good nights alternating with the bad nights.
One thing I have to do is find something to do in the 10: to 11:00 time period before I go to bed. I have been sitting on the floor meditating for an hour and a half but all I end up doing is nodding off. These microsleeps are probably killing my sleep drive. I have to get up and find something to do in the 10: to 11:00 time period so I don’t microsleep and then do my wind down from 11:00 to 11:45. Maybe I need to start reading again. Yesterday felt so good at work. I was thinking about getting another cat to replace the one that died last year and also to join a dating service again to try and find a girlfriend. (I am divorced which was probably one of my triggers for the insomnia.) Today, I am just trying to stay awake. My SE is at 65%. Nowhere near the 85% to expand my sleep window. I know I’ve only been doing SR for a day less than two weeks but it’s just so frustrating. If I could just keep my sleep in the 4+ hour range. I am in danger of having it slip back into the 2+ hour range.
Padron,
My sleep window is from 11:45pm to 5:15am. Last night was one of those nights where I had to get out of bed at 3:00 in the morning and never got back to sleep at all. I just sat there in a darkened room until it was time to get up. Those are the most frustrating of nights, especially after a good sleep the previous evening. Hope things went better for you.
Hi Padron. Yes, we need to be easy on ourselves and forgive ourselves because there are times when we will screw up. I do know what you mean about being extremely tired and thinking you will have a good sleep and you don’t and you don’t have a clue as to why. I just need to remember to keep active in order to build up my sleep drive or I won’t be getting any sleep that night. I also have the same problem as you in waking up around 4:00 and then having to try to get to sleep or just give it up and get up for the day. Sometimes, I have a hard time falling asleep so I have to do SC both early night and the later hours of the morning. For now, I stopped being a yo-yo and don’t have to get up that much as I did when SR first started. I at first thought that this would be a quick fix as well but now realize it’s an ongoing process and I might not be getting 6 or more hours of sleep until a couple months from now. So be it.
I do actually look at the clock at night but only in certain instances. I am a very poor judge of time for the sleep diary so if I get up to go to the bathroom, I will look at the clock to see how long I slept for the diary. Or, if I wake up I will look at it for the same reason. As for timing the 30 minutes to get out of bed, I don’t do that. I know by now if I am going to maybe fall back asleep or if there is no chance I will. If it’s a maybe, I stay in bed a little while longer until I know for sure. If it’s a definite no, I get up. I don’t fret about the time and how much longer I will need to get up for two reasons. The first is for now, I hardly ever sleep to the alarm anyway so again, I either have to get up for SC or hopefully go back to sleep. So there is no reason to toss and turn anymore. Also, I don’t care if I get a poor night’s sleep and the effect it will have on my work performance the next day. I know I survived before and I will survive again so the time until I have to get up doesn’t bother me.
Okay, hope you continue to make progress. Hope to see you on this thread soon.
I agree with Deb, Artichoke. Your therapist had you try all these different things but one thing CBT-i demands is consistency in two areas: Sleep Restriction (SR) and Stimulus Control (SC). It sounds like she had you do a lot of Sleep Hygiene stuff which as we all know here from listening to Martin that Sleep Hygiene doesn’t really help against chronic insomnia. So, you need to either sign up with Martin for his paid course or do the free course. But I have to warn you that neither course is easy. Also, it isn’t a quick fix but rather an ongoing process so just because you finish the course doesn’t mean you will be “cured”. And yes, make your way over to that thread when you start doing SR so you can be encouraged by those who have went through the process.
