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Pam – Very happy to hear that you are doing better. It was my pleasure reaching out to you after you posted originally. Hope you continue to improve. Stop by here on this thread in the forum more often. We love hearing from you and everyone else out there who has trouble sleeping and is trying, or wants to try ACT.
Pam – Maybe it’s just the stress of the Holidays that is interfering with your sleep this time. Hope you get back on track soon. I know you will.
Mac – Deep seated anxiety. It just takes a long time to get rid of it, or live with it peacefully. I had insomnia for 9 months before that August date when I started ACT whole-heartedly, so it was really ingrained in me. I tried CBT-i but the SC just made the insomnia worse.
Thanks Deb. It has taken me awhile to get where I am with ACT. I have it written down that I started August 7 so it’s been a little over 4 months. It takes time. Some people pick it up quicker than others. And remember for those of you starting ACT that after 4+ months, I am nowhere near “cured” yet. So don’t get discouraged if it starts taking you awhile to pick it up.
Deb – Glad to hear you are doing well again. BTW, any new videos of you singing on YouTube? As for me, I try to do everything that needs doing before I go to bed before 9:00. So I am in bed between 9:00 and 9:15. The alarm is set for 5:15 so that is about an 8 hour time period I am in bed. Of course on weekends and days off, I usually stay in bed another half hour to an hour, which is what I used to do when I was a normal sleeper. I still wake up mostly about an hour after I initially go to sleep. Not sure why. Usually it doesn’t last long and I can get back to sleep rather quickly. Then I used to wake up around 2:00 to 2:30. A lot of times I would get back to sleep and then wake up again around 3:00 and again at 4:00. I could mostly get back to sleep if I woke up around 3:00 but if I woke up at 4:00, I could never get back to sleep. Probably there was some stress in there about the alarm going off. Within the last two weeks though, I have been sleeping longer into the 3:00 and 4:00 hour time periods. Like last night, I woke up about 3:00, went to the bathroom and came back to bed and fell right back to sleep. I then slept until about 4:45, went back to sleep right away and then woke up for good at 5:00. I still am a bit tired today along with some other symptoms but nowhere near as bad as when I get less than 5 hours of sleep. In fact, I feel pretty good today. Not really great but much better than I have been . I hope it continues. I know there will be some relapses in there but I will take them as they come and accept them like I have been doing.
As for mindful meditation, I admit it’s hard for me to practice that. I mostly practice the tools of welcoming the unwelcome thoughts and feelings as well as the noticing your senses tools. Those are really easy to practice for me with the time I have during the day. I find it’s better to practice them during the day than just before I go to bed.
Mac – There’s no question I have had relapses and probably will have more to come. That’s just the nature of the beast. And there are times I have slacked off on doing the tools and meditation. No question about that either. But when I have had the bad nights. I knew I had to go back to the ACT principals. Hopefully I will keep using the tools to stay on track. And that includes even after I am “cured”. This is now about three good days in a row for me. Hope to see it continue.
Mac – Yes, we suffer from the same type of insomnia in that mostly, we can get to sleep okay but have early awakenings. I have to admit that it is disappointing when I get them. A lot of times I think I have slept longer than I have only to look at the clock and find it’s only been an hour or two. But I practiced the tools and meditations and gradually, even though I still had these awakenings, it was easier to fall back asleep again. I also went to bed at the same time no matter how tired I felt, and as we both know, a lot of times, once bedtime approaches, you no longer feel tired. I let the awakenings happen and confronted them by using the tools. Some times I still didn’t fall back to sleep and I awoke really tired the next day. But since I stayed in bed and didn’t practice SC, I had more energy the next day. Gradually over these last five months, it has been easier to fall asleep, even if I’m still not getting enough sleep. These last couple of nights have been pretty good for me. I estimate I got about 6 hours each of those two nights and last night, I got about 7 hours +. I feel really good today. The point is not to avoid your anxiety by going to bed later hoping you won’t have to deal wit it. You will never get rid of the anxiety that way. So yes, got to bed around 9:00 knowing that you will have some early awakenings. Deal with them as they occur using the tools.
Karen – Deb can correct me if I’m wrong but she did not practice SC. Yes, there are times when she got up to write in her journal, but only now and then. Mostly, she stayed in bed like ACT tells you to do. I’m sorry to hear about your relapse but Deb is right. You beat it once, you can do it again.
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. I know it seems strange to say that but you have to learn to live with your anxiety and unwelcome thoughts even though you know you will have a bad day the next day. You have to learn to welcome the bad feelings you will get the next day from having a bad sleep. Use the tools to welcome all of your unwelcome thoughts and feelings, including the symptoms you will have the next day. You can’t learn to deal with the anxiety until you welcome everything and learn it’s not going to hurt you. You really need to re-read the book. It will explain the logic better than I can. Or let Deb explain it as she is good at that.
Mac – I’m very sorry you are having trouble with your sleep again but I don’t think you really understand ACT. Deb gave you sound advice. Go to bed earlier so that if you do wake up, you can rest in bed and save energy for the next day. You say you don’t want to do this because you’ll wake up early and stay awake due to anxiety. But that’s exactly what you are supposed to do with ACT. Face your unwelcome thoughts, feelings and anxiety until you get to know them and are comfortable with them. Until you do that, your anxiety will remain under the surface and keep waking you up in these cycles. SRT and ACT are incompatible due to the restricted sleep window factor and stimulus control. And no, ACT is not about easily believing you can be a normal sleeper again. It takes consistent work. You really need to re-read the ACT book again…..and again, as many of us have. Hope you get better sleep soon.
Deb – Sorry to hear about the bad sleep but yes, you have been through this before and it usually only takes you a day or two to get back on track. Just out of curiosity, what goes into making a White Russian? Vodka?
Karen – Good to hear you are back on track. Families can cause a lot of stress and anxiety. Hopefully the Christmas/New Year’s season will be better to you. Just accept what comes. Good luck. I hope to be as well as you some day.
Da1265 – I tried magnesium supplements for about two months. They didn’t do a thing for me.
All ACT. No sleep window. I am in bed for about 8 hours as that is what I used to do pre-insomnia. Definitely no SC. I stay in bed if I can’t sleep. I practice all of the meditations and tools as outlined in the Meadows Sleep Book. I started acupuncture but not sure if it’s reducing my anxiety any yet. I’ll give it a couple more sessions but even if it doesn’t help my insomnia, I might stick with it if it helps other areas of my body.
Mac – Fluctuates but mostly in the 5 to 7 range. But when I got below 5, they are killers in the 1 to 2 range.
Sorry to hear about your bad night Mac. I agree those can be tough after a couple good nights. I had a relatively good sleep of 6 hours,, or maybe slightly less. Have a headache this morning but not falling asleep at my desk. I’m trying to stay positive but wondering of I’ll ever get over this.
Deb – How did you do?
I know exactly what you mean about body temperature Deb. Ever since I came down with insomnia, it has been difficult to adjust for my body temp. It seems I am too cold and have to pull up the blankets or too warm and throw some off. And that cycle will repeat itself all night unless I am sleeping and can ignore it. Two nights ago, our outside temperature when down to 5 degrees. I live in a drafty house and the furnace had trouble keeping up so I woke up very cold even though I had a lot of blankets on. I had to put more clothing on but once I did, I went to sleep right away. That’s when I got the 7.5 hours of sleep. Last night I thought I would be cold again so put the extra clothing on but then had trouble getting to sleep because I was so warm. I am looking forward to just getting into bed and resting tonight. Whatever happens, happens. I do have to try and control this anxiety about work though. More bad thoughts to welcome in the night.
It’s been awhile since I posted and I’ve been catching up on the other posts. Glad everyone is progressing, even if slowly. I am also progressing slowly. Friday night, I had about a 7 hour sleep and Saturday night I had about a 7.5 hour sleep. I usually can do pretty good on the weekends but this weekend was really good. During the week is another story and I think it’s because I stress over having to get up and go to work. Last night, I awoke from a very bad dream about an hour after I initially fell asleep and couldn’t get back to sleep right away. Between 10:30 and 3:00, I figure I got another hour in of light sleep and then a deep sleep from 3:00 to 4:00 and 4:15 to 5:15. So I am not a zombie today but don’t nearly feel as well as yesterday. I did go to the neurologist last week and she assured me that while she isn’t saying all of my symptoms are being caused by insomnia, I have to remember that everything I mention can be caused by it. So I am comfortable with that part of it. And then she tried to put me on a tricyclic anti-represent for my headaches. i told her no thank you. I am not going through the anti-depressant route again. So, I am going to go for an acupuncture treatment tonight and then just go to bed with the intention of just getting some rest.
Deb – Are you still taking the anxiety meds? Are you planning to come off soon?
Mac – Two things that I noticed you mentioned a couple of times in your posts. The first is clock watching. In ACT, it’s okay to look at the clock during the night. There is nothing wrong with that. The thing to watch for is how you react to looking at the clock. (See page 175 in The Sleep Book.) If you personally don’t want to look at the clock and want to hide it so you don’t see it, that’s perfectly okay. But I don’t want others in this ACT thread to think that they can’t look at the clock if they awaken or get up to go to the bathroom. The second is that you mention you look forward to a good sleep that night. We have had two people here talk to Dr. Kat at The Sleep School. Deb was one. I forget who the other was but Dr. Kat told him that thinking we are going to have a good night that night is actually a bad thought. That may seem odd but the theory is that if you keep thinking that and it doesn’t happen, it will cause anxiety. With ACT, when you go to bed, you should only be practicing Acceptance and Letting Go. Hope this helps.
Hope everyone out there continues to improve.
