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Hi Suren. In answer to your question, with ACT, you don’t wait until you go to bed until you are sleepy. You go to bed pretty much at a set time each night whether you are sleepy or not. With ACT, you practice quiet acceptance of whatever happens. By staying in bed, ACT believes that you will have more energy the next day than if you practiced SC. Hope this helps and I hope you get more sleep soon.
Mac – I suggest you re-read Dan Meadows book again. Maybe not Chapter 1 but from Chapter 2 onward. Most of us who practice ACT re-read sections of it on an ongoing basis as there is a lot to digest. Good luck in the next week.
Mac – I want to add one thing to Deb’s comments. Remember that these tools aren’t designed to get you to sleep. They only help put you in the mood so that sleep can come more easily. There are many times at night that I have used these tools and still remained awake. However, I was definitely in a more peaceful state, such as no tossing and turning, and was therefore able to just lie there and not expend energy fighting the insomnia. That’s where “acceptance” comes in. Just lay there without thinking about anything in particular and accept whatever happens. Hope that helps.
JT – Welcome to the thread and glad we were able to help you. Like you say, it’s a long road but you sound like your making good progress. Feel free to ask any questions that you may have on ACT.
Burn – Well, we both need to stick with the program as best we can and hopefully it will turn around for both of us eventually. Correction! Hopefully it will turn around for EVERYONE here.
Burn – Sorry to hear that. A couple questions for you. When you do sleep, how many hours are you getting? And you’re only getting that approximately every other night? Are you going to schedule another session with Dr. Kat at the sleep school?
Mac – Remember that ACT doesn’t really do SR. At least not a strict one like you are used to. At most, after estimating how much sleep you need, you can reduce that by a half hour on each end, but it’s not a requirement. If you can’t sleep, you stay in bed and the next night, you go to bed at the same time. You don’t reduce the SW. Also, you go to bed at the same time every night (unless you are out with friends or some such) and get up at roughly the same time every day. You can stay in bed for a half hour to an hour before you get out of bed like, say, on a weekend. A lot of the principles of ACT are not compatible with CBT-i, such as SC and going to bed only when sleepy. That’s why we tell you that you have to jump in all the way and don’t do both.
Well, my sleep is all over the board. Last night I woke up again an hour after falling asleep. This time though, I stayed awake and couldn’t get back to sleep. I was all ready for it to be an hour’s sleep night and I was accepting of that. But I did fall asleep for between another hour to an hour and a half around 3:00 in the morning. Surprisingly, I don’t feel that bad this morning. I have slacked off on doing the meditations but have started up again in earnest the last two days so hopefully that will help. I am also starting to live my life again no matter how bad I feel. On Sunday, I went over to a friend’s house to watch a football game. Monday I went to a disaster preparedness meeting put on by the National Guard at our local library. And Tuesday night was the gym. Last night I just did some household chores but tonight I will probably be back at the gym. I found I can do my breathing exercises while running on the treadmill. My trouble is my body starts out well on these programs but then it seems to adjust. As an example, I started out well on CBT-i and worked myself up to around 5 hours of sleep. Then I regressed back to getting only 2 to 3 hours of sleep. I started ACT and got up to a good level then started regressing again. Then I started the CPAP machine and for a week or two got up to getting between 6 and 7 hours of sleep and now I regressed again to where I am all over the board. I just have to keep doing the meditations and using the tools. I also have to get out more and live my life instead of staying home and falling to insomnia. That’s the only way I am going to beat this. And I know it will take awhile. In that last chapter that Deb mentions in the case study, it took that woman around 6 months.
Deb – I wouldn’t worry about the relapse as we all know it can happen. You might want to consider though that you could be getting rebound insomnia from weaning yourself from the anxiety medication. If that’s the case, continue “doing nothing” about the relapse and it should pass.
I have to thank you again for your advice. Last night, before I went to bed, I prepared myself that I was going to wake up early and not to be frustrated about it. I did sleep for 4 hours and woke up but I wasn’t frustrated at all. I was able to fall back asleep. It was a combination deep sleep/light sleep being in and out of it but it was sleep. I am still having some problems today but I feel much better than yesterday. Hopefully, a couple of these nights of at least 6 hours sleep and I’ll be back to where I was. I just have to keep myself aware that I will not be cured overnight and that it will take awhile, even after I start sleeping normally again. When I keep that in mind, I won’t suffer from frustration when it doesn’t happen right away.
Or, in regards to my last post, if anyone can think of something else to do besides journaling, let me know. Thanks.
Deb – Thanks! That’s very good advice. The frustration has just started for me within the last two weeks. I think it’s because I was doing rather well getting between 6 and 7 hours a lot of nights but then regressed some. So I just felt frustrated on awakening at 2:30 or 3:30 in the morning and not being able to get back to sleep. I think a lot of times that while I think I am accepting of being awake, I’m really trying to force myself to go back to sleep and we all know you can’t force sleep. Last night was a good example. I had a wonderful evening out. I got home a little late and went to bed and fell right to sleep. I was even having a good dream and then as is usual lately, I suddenly woke up. That was very frustrating which most likely was the cause as to why I couldn’t get back to sleep. I think though that I am going to have to learn to deal with the frustration the night before I go to bed and not after I wake up. Preparing myself for the wake-ups will probably be less frustrating than dealing with the frustration after I actually wake up. I think it would also help for me to get out of bed from time to time when I notice myself struggling. I don’t Journal though and it never was a good hobby for me. But maybe if I went into the other room and petted the cats for awhile that would be a good equivalent. Or even just walked out to the kitchen to get a drink of water. I don’t mean every time I wake up as that would be too much like doing SC. I just mean those times when I catch myself trying to force sleep and can’t stop it. Getting a couple minutes away from that struggle might be a good way for me to “push that button” as you put it.
Burn – I agree with you. Usually I can welcome the anxiety and it goes away pretty quick. Last night was an exception and I think it was because I was lying there for five hours. But mostly, it’s the frustration. No matter how hard I try to welcome it, it keeps rising the longer I have to stay awake, even if I am lying there in quiet restfulness. Then again, is that a contradiction? Lying there in quiet restfulness but frustrated?
Ron – I have tried Xanax when my doctor first started prescribing meds for me. I used it every now and then but I don’t consider it to be a good sleep drug. There is no question it put me out for the night but it isn’t the type of sleep I wanted. I also had to deal with some withdrawal effects the next day. I prefer to stay away from ALL benzos as the risk of addiction isn’t worth it.
Deb – Did you stop taking Effexnor or are you still on it? I know last time we discussed this, you said you were waiting to sleep better before you withdrew from it. Also, another question for you. You said acceptance of wakefulness is the key. When you accepted your wakefulness, did you just lie there in quiet wakefulness but fully awake getting to know your insomnia and accepting your unwelcome thoughts or were you just lying there letting your mind drift where it wanted to go? There is a difference there. In the first case, you are kind of cognizant lying there with your insomnia. In the second case, you probably aren’t too cognizant and just letting your mind go where it wants to. Admittedly it’s a subtle difference. When I am partially awake, I try to let my mind drift rather than wake myself up fully to concentrate on quiet wakefulness. Doesn’t always work though and I wonder if I should force myself to be fully awake so I can then confront my unwelcome thoughts. I still think I’m getting better even though I had two bad nights. And even if I did lie in bed for 5 hours last night, it was better than doing SC. I would have felt much worse because I wouldn’t have gotten any rest. I would have been up trying to do an activity which would have tired me out. I am glad I tried CBT-i and agree that it was a good base but I prefer ACT.
Glad a lot of you are doing better. It’s a slow process but it can be done. Unfortunately, I had two bad nights in a row Saturday night and last night. Especially last night when I only got around 2 to 2 and a half hours sleep at the beginning of the night. Then I lay in bed for 5 hours trying to accept. I did catch myself challenging my thoughts of frustration and anxiety so I had to change my thinking to thoughts of acceptance. Some other unwelcome thoughts come in as well and I accepted them but I just couldn’t get back to sleep. So, I am really all over the board with my sleep. Surprisingly, I don’t feel too bad today. I am thinking of trying an experiment tonight which is probably a no-no. I am going to take some Passion Flower to see if that helps the anxiety any. If there are any side effects, I can always stop since they aren’t prescription level meds. Any thoughts on this? I know we aren’t supposed to take supplements since if it does work, we will start to believe that we need them to sleep. But if I can reduce my anxiety some, that would be great!
Borgesbi – Your comments on acceptance of wakefulness are good ones. You are right in that it’s just plain hard accepting that we are awake in the middle of the night. I can accept the unwelcome thoughts about other things that come my way but actually accepting being awake in the middle of the night is very difficult. I tried to let my mind wander last night so I could go back to sleep but I couldn’t, so I decided to get to know my insomnia again and stayed up with it some. I almost fell back to sleep a couple times but just couldn’t get over that edge. I probably need to learn to accept that wakefulness more if I want to return to sleep. Thanks for the comments/advice.
Hope everyone else had a better sleep the last couple of nights.
Hi Borgesbi – I usually only feel the frustration when I wake up and then I am also usually quick to accept it. The only time I try to stay up with my insomnia is when I am wide awake and just lying there. Then I will use the tools and accept everything that comes in the night. Mostly though, when I wake up, I am not fully awake but rather half asleep or in a very quiet restful state. When I am like that, I do not try to force myself to fully awake. I just stay in that state and accept what comes. Sometime I fall back to sleep and sometimes I don’t. I also presume that I go into a Stage sleep a lot. I have been better at just going about my life even with the insomnia. It’s just tough when I get a really bad sleep night as it’s tough to concentrate the next day. Thanks for all of the advice.
