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sleepykieran-Thank you for taking the time to write! All of what you said makes sense and I agree, that is it the relationship we have with sleep that is the key to overcoming the problem. It it is just that many times, letting go, relaxing, accepting, etc., does not help, and I think that is where the frustration comes in. I have always exercised, and I do think that is a very important part of sleep health. It IS very hard to keep the stress at bay when there are many, many, nights of struggle, and as you said, it turns into a vicious cycle. Last night, I practiced more acceptance and did fall asleep for most of the night. But it doesn’t always happen so I think I am going to just do what I feel I need to at the time whether that be to get up or just lay there an relax. I know your wife doesn’t know about insomnia, but she has a point. My husband is also a very good sleeper, so he would offer the same advice. He is in favor of getting up if needed though and thinks laying in bed is worse. He also favors maintaining some sort of schedule. Not necessarily restriction, but just a fairly regular sleep/wake time. That is what he has done his whole life and he sleeps like a baby without fail 99.99% of the time. I’m glad you are doing better and I hope I will too. I wrote with hopes to help you! But you have helped me in return. Thanks and I’m glad you are back to being relaxed and doing better.
sleepykieran – My experience with sleep restriction has left me frustrated. Sleep onset is my biggest problem. I have tried the ACT method of acceptance and relaxation, and I still lay there all night with no drowsy feeling. As far as the restriction, when I miraculously fall into a deep sleep and then am awakened by an alarm, I get very upset. It feels so wrong and then even more wrong when I go all day thinking my sleep drive will be strong, and it isn’t and I don’t fall asleep any faster or easier. So I guess I don’t have confidence in sleep restriction, but I do think stimulus control or getting out of bed is the better thing to do. I have found myself doze a bit if I get up and then go back to bed as opposed to laying there all night. I think you should go back maybe to what worked for you before? Did you find sleep restriction was not right back then either? You can always bring it back in?
I am struggling so much, but all of your positive posts are so helpful to me! I think I am going to have to go back to CBT-I and try it again. I’m not doing well with just laying in bed and accepting. I feel I have accepted and am accepting, so I don’t know why I can’t fall asleep. My arousal system is just way too strong. I really don’t like sleep restriction or getting out of bed, but I don’t know what else to do so I’m going to give it a go.
pinkyjane – looking forward to hearing about your success story. I am struggling to stay devoted to CBT-I.
pinkyjane – your post touched me as I have been struggling 25 years. 45 years is a long time. Have you been trying CBT-I and/or ACT?
Manfred – Yep, 100% the same exact thing I deal with every day. I understand.
KarenP – Thank you for the tips and advice. I will try it. I have nothing to lose!KarenP – Thanks for sharing. I started doing it regularly, and then stopped, but will resume practicing again. With the app, which category of meditations do you the to use most? There are categories such as Stress, Happiness, Focus, On the Go, Sleep. Will all of the above allow for the same result which is a change in the Amygdala? And is meditation something then you have to do indefinitely to maintain that change?
Manfred – I have Xanax and Klonopin on hand which I use sparingly, but just having the medication is a comfort. I have taken Lexapro and thought it a good medication until the dose I was on did not help and I was told I had to increase, that the body does get used to it even if is not considered addictive. That didn’t appeal to me so I went off. I have been to therapy for anxiety in the past, but it still continues to be a struggle for me. I have to work at it. The biggest obstacle is trying to get the racing thoughts under control. I don’t have panic attacks thankfully. I just think very deeply about everything. Is this what you struggle with the most as well?
Manfred – I also suffer anxiety and have had what you are going through now. I have had insomnia so long though that I no longer obsess about it. My mind instead obsesses about everything else! I found what helped was distracting myself every time a thought about sleep came to me. So when the thought came, I would acknowledge it, but then move my mind back to what I was doing and the more I did that, that thought or obsession started to arrive less and soon I forgot about it. It is hard to forget though or not obsess because we feel so physically bad and are reminded we slept poorly, but nowadays, I know that stressing does no good so I have learned to stop with it. I still have a very busy, busy mind that is all over the place so I am still working on that because when I go to bed, I think all night long. Such was my night last night! Nil sleep. But not giving the sleep problem the attention it wants really got rid of the obsessing thoughts for me. The exercises in The Sleep Book I find very difficult as it is very hard for me to stay focused on one thing. I think the simplest of them all is the breathing exercise where you count breath in 1, breath out 2, up to 10. Maybe try that when the thought about sleep comes? Hope this gets better for you soon.
Deb-I’m so sorry. I also had a terrible night. I am wondering if the working on mindfulness just in the day would help. I can’t do it at night, but that is just me. Let us know if you think it makes a difference. I’m glad you at least had a couple of good hours.
Deb-I often find myself not practicing what I preach, so I understand! You have been such an inspiration to so many, but none of this easy to implement so you will get back on track because you know what to do. I don’t think I would consider anything you have described a setback really, because life happens and things can get very stressful especially during the holidays. I’m sorry to hear you saw the clock. I have done that by accident many times and it really does cause the worst anxiety about sleep. I think you will bounce back quickly especially as we have only a few more months of these shorter days. I notice for myself anyway that things become very difficult with the fall back clock change and then the holidays that follow. So better days are coming for sure. I slept better last night , but I did take a very small dose of Xanax. Sometimes I take one, but try very hard not to.
Deb-Thank you as all you have said is really helpful whether you are an expert or not. I do usually nod off near the early morning hours during a night of thoughtful wandering, and I also do not have to get up for any reason so I am very fortunate about that. I am going to keep all that you said and refer to it. It is easy to forgot sometimes and then the anxiety returns and seems to dominate over everything we know. I have memorized “complete acceptance and calm no matter what it takes to get there.” 🙂 And that does make a whole lot of sense.
Hi Deb – Thank you. That was extremely helpful to read. I have had that night or even moments of complete acceptance I think, because that is when I do sleep. But I feel better that mastering mindfulness is not the goal and that it is okay not to use it. I was feeling like ACT would not work if I didn’t master this skill day or night. I will work on that complete acceptance and relaxation and as you said, whatever it takes to get there. Those thoughts about accepting whatever happens helps, but it can still be a night of wakefulness. I know it takes time so I will try and be consistent and hopefully I will have positive results. Thank you for the help and support.
gdsmom – Thank you for sharing. I am not sure I have felt more rested with ACT yet when practicing it in the night if happens all night. I hope I can get to that point where I have relaxed, accepted and let go, yet feel energized if I have no deep sleep. I do a lot of mindfulness when I walk in the late afternoon, but I do find it extremely difficult because my mind wanders within a minute no matter how much I practice. I am welcoming negative thoughts and that does seem to help them from coming as much. I do feel a sense of relief to acknowledge them and then say goodbye. I hope I can feel energized enough like you to help forget insomnia. It is very hard though to forget insomnia when the physical effects are so awful. Thanks again for taking the time to respond to me!
Deb-I was so happy to read you had some very good nights. I’m with you that it doesn’t matter the reason necessarily, but that you got them! I do have those times where I do sleep unexpectedly and I’m elated so I don’t evaluate too much. I will try to keep most of the mindfulness practice during the day and try to get that place of acceptance. I really thought I have accepted my insomnia, but I do struggle with frustration sometimes just because it feels so darn awful. The thoughts mentioned in the book like everyone is sleeping but me, I will look awful tomorrow, etc., do still come so I need to work on that. Writing does help me sometimes as my mind races so badly not just about sleep, but about life! I’m not sure I could work for 2 hours to get to a place of acceptance every night. I’m one of those who find mindfulness a frustrating exercise, but I am trying. I do like the acceptance of thoughts as that feels more of a relief than trying to pay attention completely to the present. I hope your good streak continues and thoughts and prayers for everyone!
Steve – Thank you, yes reading the book over is helping to remember the details of ACT.
Deb-Last night, I felt I was working all night to combat thoughts with mindfulness. Now I remember why I abandoned it early on. I was waking up with headaches working all night to keep my brain calm and felt it was working against me. So I see your point 100%. I’m thinking the better goal is to work during the day on the mindfulness? I like the easy breathing and counting to 10 exercise the most at night if needed because it is easy and doesn’t require too much thinking. I understand the analogy of listening to a lecturer and just falling off. Thank you for the offer to help with Dr. Kat as well.
