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Thanks Mac for the video. I do know the hyperarousal feeling of either not being able to sleep, waking up an hour or two later or having night of light sleep and feeling unrefreshed. It is about quality vs quantity or at least a good balance between them.
Deb, sorry to hear you were derailed. An evening nap especially if it’s longer than 20 minutes or so will affect your ability to fall back asleep but it shouldn’t have affected your sleep confidence. Sleep confidence deteriorates as the hours awake pile up but the sooner you give up, stop caring or worrying about it, the faster you get on track, or, your body will just reach a point and sleep.
Hi Mac,
It’s when I am in the good phase I am like “forget meditation” because before all this started I would just do whatever and not care which works to a point until my brain gets stuck in the stress/arousal mode. I’ve been there many times and know it passes. It can take a few days before it starts to swing back.
I was going through your to bed and wake up. 10:30 – 4:30 without noticing you arose is actually not bad. Everyone has their bar of success but 5.5-6 hours means almost all of your deep restorative sleep has been met. From 4:30 to 6:30 (if that’s your wake up) is light and normal. Some of us going through this will over analyze that. The last 2 hours will mostly be REM and in and out sleep. I just accept it and know that tomorrow I may get less or more.
For us with sleep maintenance, what I say to myself to make me feel better is if I go to bed and wake up 4-6 hours later and either fall back or not, I know that a good chunk has been met and not to worry. Some nights I fall right back which is wonderful and some nights are just not happening. It’s those odd nights like last night where onset (rare) was a problem and then maintenance was a problem an hour after I fell asleep so it was just all whack.
Excellent post Burn. Honestly it makes sense and works. When I go to bed, close my eyes and just be, I drift off. When I wake up in the middle of the night if I am sleepy, Ill do anything I need (bathroom, water etc) and then go back to sleep. There really isn’t any effort needed to sleep and with a reasonable wake and bed time everything falls into place well for days/weeks and even months.
The hyperarousal is the beast. Each time I relapse, I feel tense, alert, need to take a nice deep breathe, worried for no reason or for silly things and then staying asleep is difficult. This is during the day and night. You would think it would pass after a few minutes but it lingers for days. The good news is how I react is less than before. I would try to fix it throughout the night by trying this and that and feel like the next day is a catastrophe. I rarely take anything to try to “help” but either they don’t do anything or just make things worse.
The past 2 nights were rough and although laying comfortably was comfortable, after awhile noticing that I am drifting off, I would wake up with a tense alertness. It is self monitoring but my brain is on alert for any sound. I guess more meditation during the day to calm the amygdala? I was contemplating taking a shot of something in homes to shut my brain enough to fall back asleep.
As grueling as it is, I would rather just lay down and tough it than take on OTC sleep aid. I would rather have a glass of wine and try my luck with that vs OTC. OTC’s just make you drowsy and more “tired” but if you aren’t “sleepy”, it just makes it worse. The hang over is rough and lasts into the late morning. Melatonin does the same thing and especially with a higher dose.
And that’s what accepting is all about. Try not to dwell on the poor nights. Even if you have a great day, you are more likely to have better sleep but understand that you may not. When the night isn’t that great, to be able to just let it be. You may end up falling back asleep, maybe not.
My “fixing” is less regimented as before. I would do thermonuclear and try everything in the cabinet which would not only not work, I would get a major hang over which was worse than a poor nights sleep without. Now, I just try to make minor adjustments. Do I need to go to the bathroom? A little too hot/cold? cat meowing? put her downstairs and go back to bed.
What gives me comfort is that since this all started, I’ve had good nights. Been on several vacations and often times I would sleep in just because I am actually sleepy and keep sleeping a bit longer just because.
But those bad nights, it can be tough and my arousal level is high.
You’re right about that. How you react makes a difference. If you panic then it spirals, if you just shrug and move forward, chances are it’s mitigated substantially.
I noticed Sasha Stephens has her own site now (sleepforlife). Her journey sounds like it was rougher than mine and is seems to be doing well herself. I am curious to read her book and her approach and if it’s much different. It shouldn’t be because we all know sleeping doesn’t take effort.
I am still in this rut and it’s feeling a bit rough. It’s hard not to think about it all and my chest feels a little tight. I slept from 11:30-11:45 to about 3-3:30. From then on even though I was relaxed and calm, my body just doesn’t want to drop off. I muddled through without anything.
Mac, I know about the next day feeling. I get a little worked up about it but if I am in a good phase, it usually keeps up and the next day is smooth.
I think it’s the unpredictability that sucks. Having a string of good nights and then a bad or string of bad nights with no reason or trigger. This leads me to believe it’s not 100% psychological but also some predisposition to it.
I’ve been working on it for about the same amount of time and have had ups and downs. Sleep medication will help aid to a degree and if it helps, continue. If you’d like to stop, consult your doctor for an exit strategy. Usually the best way is to set a date to start and then start with half the dose. Chances are things will be the same or better. Regardless, stay at that dose for a week or two or whatever then either stop or go to quarter and repeat. Hope this helps.
I was off medication for 7 months and I know I can sleep without them!
I would also like to commend Deb for helping especially with support and what’s worked and what’s not through her struggles.
Sorry you had a rough night Mac. Mine wasn’t much better. When I find something that works, it’s almost often how I was sleeping before all this. 11-12 am and 7am wake up. Just go to bed and not worry (easier said than done).
I went to bed around 11:15 and I know I fell asleep around 11:40 but was up an hour later which is unusual. I was relaxed but couldn’t dose off. I was up again around 4am and don’t remember a thing until 6:30 and was up at 7. So it was a fragmented night.
I do find that during the wave of poor nights, I am more alert. A pin drop can wake me up and make my body freeze and make adrenaline rush though me. I think chemical imbalance but I must say it’s psychological and I can tune my thoughts away from it.
Hi Deb,
I’ve been doing ACT for well over half a year. I’ve read through the book a few times. It definitely helped me understand the struggles we face and how the more you try to solve it, the harder things become. Also by being gentler on yourself, it allows you to feel less anxious and so on. CBT-i I was being too strict to a T and it was making things worse. Having a good sleep window and not worrying much helps a lot.
My issue feels like nervousness during the day and hyperarousal. It comes and goes but it’s a viscous cycle or poor sleep making the nervousness and tenseness worse that perpetuates insomnia until this start to go in a positive trajectory. I have problems falling asleep now as well. It can take me awhile to drift off and when I do I may be out for just a short period. Things just feel messed and derailed so quickly.
One thing I haven’t been doing is mindfulness through the day. I put that on the back burner and should incorporate that into my routine.
Last night another rough night.
Cruise control as in good wave of sleeping and also normal how it was before it started. Out a bit later on weekends if I feel like it, sleeping in another 30-60 minutes if I naturally wake up then, not caring if I’ve watched TV before bed. Basically being more relaxed and realizing that I don’t need blue light blocking glasses, hot bath, tea or pills to sleep because I would just go upstairs and close my eyes and don’t really struggle and know it is possible. Also waking up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and falling right back to sleep. That is normal and “cruise control” to me.
It started Sept 2018 around the same time as Deb. It took a few months to start to nip it in the bud. Honestly, overall this have improved tremendously since a year ago. Even bad nights these days I cope better but still have flashbacks of how awful things were.
Story is I wish I knew. Things have been pretty good for months! which I really enjoyed!. Sleep confidence was pretty strong as well. If I need to commit to an early morning meeting or presentation?, no sweat. Last Thursday night out of the blue I had a rough night. Friday night I was with my wife in a hotel for the night and was fine. Saturday night at home was fine so I was hoping the bout was just that one night. Then Sunday and Monday nights were rough. No reason could be found other than just feeling more daytime nervousness. No reason why because there are no pressing issues.
I am saying it’s just chronic insomnia and have to muddle through this wave. I am not doing CBT-i (no logs, diary, bed for sleep only etc) but I am adhering to a reasonable sleep window, no naps or under 20 minutes if I feel I just need to close my eyes.
What keeps me positive is that I was able to not care about what time I went to bed, didn’t need any pill or routine and feel like I was normal. It’s happened many times. The mystery is if I am on cruise control, how do I get derailed like this?
Agreed. It’s not crucial at all. It’s often temporary.
Last night was another rough one. More zombie today. About 2.5 hrs of deep sleep and no idea of in and out light unrefreshing sleep. Hope I get out of this cycle soon. Doing what I am always doing, work, live, play and hope things improve quickly.
Definitely patience with ACT. Like CBT-i, it takes time to see improvement. I think some improvement happens naturally as your body does know how to adjust when times are more/less stressful and so forth.
I had a wonderful weekend with Friday in a hotel and Saturday back at home and going to bed at midnight and out of bed around 8AM. No issues with onset, maintenance or early awakenings. Last night, another story. Onset was a little long it felt but not too bad. Was up at 3AM and just couldn’t drift back off. I was relaxed and comfy but worrying thoughts that didn’t matter would cause my mind to be alerted. “I have to take out the garbage tomorrow AM” *Body awake and alert*. Little thoughts were bigger deal than they should but I kept observing and riding out the feelings and just letting it just be. It helped keep me from getting frustrated but no sleep.
So today I am “ok” but a little zombie and clumsy and irritable. No real reason why I couldn’t fall back asleep. Sunday I was feeling more “worried” on little things especially when bored and guess translated into night. For the most part I am used to this and my sleep confidence was pretty good the last few months. A rough night or two does eat away at it to some degree. Listening to Martin and Dr Jade Wu’s talk helped as well.
Sleep is like that cute shy girlfriend. She wants to be with you but if you keep bugging her, she will run off but will return.
