[Edgar]

Many have viewed insomnia,at least some kinds of it, as an OCD type of thing. But I guess it can be called a phobia , too. Boils down to the same , you have a few bad nights, you start thinking/focusing/fearing what the next night will bring, and the circle is complete. And learning to let go of that fear goes a long way to helping you recover, especially if you are young.

Later in life other factors come into play that physically affect sleep, the drop in melatonin levels, illneses, less activity, etc.

[Edgar]

Thank you for the answer, delv,

Yeah, I’m sure that a short nap does far more for alertness than 10 cups coffee would do. As someone once said – the only cure for insomnia is to get more sleep.

I think napping is meant to be a part of everyone’s day. After all, it’s a well known fact that humans never slept in consolidated blocks before, but rather in many shorter periods throughout the day.

I’ve heard of the 20-min rule, yes. And also that sleeping longer than that can make you feel groggy instead of rested. Still, what I wouldn’t give for an hour of sleep in the afternoon.

I’ve also heard of sleep state misperception, but I doubt that I am liable to that. Even if I am, it would be in the night. At day, I just get nervous/anxious and certainly don’t sleep a wink. I’ve even tried with Valium once, after a nil sleep night, and I still couldn’t relax enough to drift off. I think it’s due to the fact that I an the kind of guy who needs peace for sleep, and there are always things happening around you during daytime.

If I understood corectly, CBT-I actually diminished the quality of your naps, the ones you do take?

I like your advice on just resting and closing my eyes for half an hour. It’s something I’ve been meaning to start doing , but I never do. Instead I rough it out until night comes and always hope that that will be the night things change back to normal, that I wake up after the birds, not before them. I am an eternal optimist!

Oh and hang in the with your CBT journey. Its tough our brains are our enemies.

 

[Edgar]

Wow, so many videos, but each with barely 100 views. No wonder insomniacs feel lonely, we are! Still, very noble of Daniel to keep it up, I hope his channel picks up.

[Edgar]

Hi, Mac,

Reading your post, I just had to chime in, since my situation for the past two and a little something years is identical to yours. I’ve had insomnia all my life, but mostly in a way of not being able to fall asleep initially. Once I would finally fall asleep , I would sleep as much as I need (7.5-8.5 hrs).

Now, I generally fall asleep fine, around 22:30 or 23 but my wakeup time is somewhere between 4:30 and 5:30. Pushing the time of going to sleep earlier or later does nothing. In favt, I’ve had days when I would go to sleep later and still wake up at 4:30. Boy those days are beauties….

I also try to comfort myself by saying “6, 6.5 hrs is fine, it’s in the lower range of normal”, but the fact of the matter is it isn’t enough. I’m tired all day, often so much that it’s hard to hold a normal conversation. And it physically shows, too, bags under eyes, people asking if I’m sick and all that.

Don’t let people tell you that “maybe it’s normal for you” or that maybe it’s “as much as your body needs”. If you feel crappy, then you didn’t sleep as much as you need. Simple as that.

Sleeping for 6 hours a day is fine for a few days, but if it becomes the norm, then you live your life like a deflated baloon.

Eddy

[Edgar]

I’ve had a mixture of onset and middle-of-the-night insomnia for most of my life, never the transient kind.

Now, for the past few years it’s exactly the other way around – excusively the transient variety, very rarely any of the other two.

I don’t mind that doctors put insomniacs into perhaps somewhat arbitrary categories, I just wish for better understanding and treatment of insomnia in general. I think most docs still view it exclusively as a symptom of something else and not a disorder in itself, which I certainly think insomnia is.

[Edgar]

Hi Martin,

You said this:

“Edgar — You mentioned that you fall asleep around 10:00 PM and wake between 4:30 AM and 5:30 AM. This suggests that you normally get between six-and-a-half hours and seven-and-a-half hours of sleep each night. Since this is within the normal range, I wonder if something else could be at play that could explain why you find it hard to feel well through the day. ”

You are right about this , I do have MS so maybe that plays a role in the whole exhaustion thing. However, on the rare days when I get 7.5 hrs and even 8 (those only happen with the help of pills) I am OK throughout the day, so I don’t know. My average of sleep for the past 2 years has been between 6 and 7 hrs, just under the 7.5-8 that I need to feel really well. I even wake up early on the weekends and holidays, no difference.

The thing is that it’s easy to hold on like that for a few days, but sleeping an hour less then your body needs EVERY DAY, without the possibility to make up for it anytime, makes a huge sleep debt I think. And since I never nap during the day (for some reason never could), the night is all I have.

All in all, apologies to impendia for barging in his/her thread. I just felt it’s polite to answer Martin’s reply.

Thank you for all the hard work around this site , Martin. As a long time insomniac (but only lately of this early-morning-awakening kind, which I think is the worst) I can say that the internet needs good websites dedicated to the problem of sleep. I hope this one makes it and stays active for a long time.

Thanks again,

Eddy

[Edgar]

A great question! I’d like to know the answer to this myself, since we seem to be in the same boat.

It is my impression that SR is a great tool for people who can’t fall asleep initially, but what about us who wake up too early in the morning? I go to sleep around the same time as you (10-ish), but wake up too early to feel well through the day (4:30,5:30). Then the next night it’s the same story, like clockwork.

And yet the majority of advice online is about sleep onset insonia, not much for sleep maintenance issues.
Anyway, hope somebody else answers, someone who knows how to deal with this.

[Edgar]

Thanks. I’ve always wanted to go to a sleep specialist, they’re just so rare in my country.

As for CBT-I, I will ask my neuro at the next appointment what she thinks I should do.

[Edgar]

Thanks, goose,

It’s always good to hear you’re not alone.

I had falling asleep problems, too, like I mentioned in the post, but sleep restriction sorted it out, I pretty much fall unconscious the minute I lie down in the night, cause I never ever nap.

That’s not normal eitger, though, since there should normally be an interval of some 20-30 min before one falls asleep. Immediately passing out signals chronic exhaustion, but I wouldn’t complain if only I managed to maintain that sleep.

 

Ugh, anyway…  as someone once put it – “a rubbish way to live”.

Thanks again, and I hope your problems cleara out in time as well.

 

[Author]

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