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Da1265 – I’m glad you ordered the Sleep Book, its a fairly short, easy read but take your time getting through it. I just reviewed parts of it again since I had a relapse two weeks ago. Once I started sleeping well I slowly fell out of the recommended practices. The past 3 nights I’ve had bad sleep onset issues, but at least getting about 5 hours sleep a night. But that is only because with my current work situation the earliest I need to arrive is 9am, so I can sleep in to 6:30am or 7am, but in a couple weeks changing jobs and will need to start at 7am, so I’m hoping me sleep onset will improve as I’ll need to fall asleep earlier.
Although the Sleep Book recommends staying in bed if you can’t sleep, I remember Deb saying at times she would get up and journal. The last 2 nights I got out of bed at 11:30am and 12am and went downstairs to write in a journal for about 30 minutes. One night I fell asleep in about 5 minutes after journaling, the 2nd night it took an hour, but at least I slept enough to get me through the day.
Rosebudd, there is an ACT thread on here for those of us who have read the Sleep Book. It is a long process to healing, but if you try and practice every day, you will slowly start feeling better. And for me although my recovery come a few days at a time then might relapse, the greatest benefit from the Sleep Book has been increased energy during the day so I could start living my life again. Wishing you better sleep soon.
Edgar, yes I remember how frustrating it can be to travel. Many years ago I was a travel agent and I hated when my companions would get so excited about taking a red-eye flight to save time, they get to travel and sleep at the same time – but not me, no, always miserable the first couple days of a long journey and then couldn’t deal with the time change.
Anyway, I would mostly recommend the mindfulness meditation because if practiced daily over time (at least two months) studies have shown it helps to shrink the amydala – the fear area of the brain and this will help with insomnia recovery. And also when my insomnia was really bad, like I wanted to die, doing mindfuness in the afternoon helped me just enough to pull together a decent dinner for my family, although trying to clean up afterwards was another story. You should definitely check out the Resources tab at the top of Martin’s website, very helpful stuff to help you get started dealing with insomnia, it just takes a long, long time to start healing.
Hi Edgar – I know you must feel incredibly awful right now, I’m going on 9 months of insomnia, the first 5 being the worst experience in my life, but slow healing the last 4 months.
About napping – I can’t nap. As a toddler my mother would complain that I wouldn’t settle down for a nap, she’d walk me around trying to tire me out, I might have got tired but would not nap. I only remember two times as an adult where I’ve been able to nap, and I’m in my late 50’s now. I don’t know if people like us were born this way or early childhood trauma, or just not feeling safe or unloved as a child caused this, but here we are, and so sorry. One of the few things that helped somewhat when I couldn’t nap was listening to guided mindfulness meditations, there are many on YouTube, or you can download apps like Insight timer or Calm. Getting calm from a 20-30 min guided meditation was the difference between being able to stay at home or checking into a psych ward.
Hi Everyone –
Hope those of us in the USA have recovered from Thanksgiving, and those of you in the other parts of the world I hope you are sleeping better. Deb, glad things are getting back to normal for you and you are able to make small trips and journeys without any setbacks.
I had a relapse 12 days ago, and had 5 bad nights out of the last 12. One of those was related to working very late, just could not unwind. It was the same thing for many of my co-workers, many only got 3-4 hours sleep on Thanksgiving and the next day at the start of our shift, one woman said she’s been awake for 29 hours already. So I did not feel so alone. I’m assuming my brain still needs more time to heal. I had so much anxiety one night thinking about relapsing – racing, pounding heart, panic. I told myself I can change my thoughts and tried to go back to the memory of beginning to practice ACT. Eventually, my heart slowed, I relaxed and fell asleep for 3 hours. Since that time I am falling asleep a bit better, but STILL in light sleep. I swear I am awake the first 2 hours of going to bed, but then realize that I did not notice my husband getting in and out of bed at night so then I know I was asleep, plus been having very realistic dreams which make me feel awake. Going for another acupuncture session today hoping it will help with relapse recovery.
Hi Steve – Last Spring when my insomnia was really terrible because I had this long-acting medication in my system is when I tried acupuncture. Probably 9-10 sessions between the end of April and the end of June. I don’t know if anything at that time could have cured me from insomnia because the medication in my system was so powerful, however there were 3 nights after an acupuncture session where I fell asleep for 7 hours. That was so great, to have 7 hours of sleep one night a week when normally only sleeping for 2.5 hours. I felt it did lessen my anxiety in general which was helpful.
Starting acupuncture again this week, after this first session I felt normal and then had a fair night of sleep, light sleep for an hour, then woke for an hour, then 5 hours of deep sleep. Yesterday, the day after acupuncture I felt as if a cold virus was coming on, tired and achy. It might have been a cold or the after-effect from acupuncture. I read this can be common 2-4 days after a session. I listened to my body this time and did not push myself. Last night, I fell asleep so quickly I don’t even remember going to bed. The only thing that woke me was lights turning on (because our power went out and the lights were left on). But I slept for almost 8 hours. I will probably go again Saturday or Sunday. Most of the needles were placed in my ears, about 5, and then on other various points on my body. I went to acupuncture once for cervical spine issues and for that problem the needles were placed differently. FYI, if you itemized on Schedule A on your tax return, acupuncture is considered a legitimate medical expense.
Deb – Hope you enjoy your trip this week! Just wanted to say thanks for your reassuring response. I felt so calm after reading your post.
Are you on medications for other health issues? Is your health generally good? It is common to have poor sleep around the time of menopause and beyond, have you considered trying HRT?
Mac- It is great to read about your progress, I hope you are feeling better day by day!
My update – after almost 3 weeks of very good sleep, I had a relapse! Four nights ago I had a nil sleep night. I felt a little bit worse than other times, made some mistakes at work, but was able to correct them. Anyway, was not that concerned because usually, I would sleep fairly well the next night after not sleeping. Well, the next night, I was exhausted but could not sleep, so at just before midnight, I called it a bad night and took my first Ambien in 9 weeks. I slept for about 5.5 hours and felt good the next day. However that night I also could not sleep and at 12:30 am took an Ambien for a 2nd night because I had a big event the following day. The last two nights I have fallen asleep on my own (no meds) but it took until 12:30am, and 12 am, but was able to sleep 6-7 hours. Today I had a day off and decided to get some acupuncture, it had helped somewhat in the past. I do not feel bad about taking the Ambien, occasional use is what it is for and it helped me do what I needed to do. Now, hopefully more mindfulness and a few acupuncture sessions will bring me back to more regular sleep again. I know it is normal to relapse, but I was hoping I’d be the exception!
I am on this forum due to being one of the small percentages of people that have had a terrible reaction to a medication, one of the side effects being insomnia. In this case, it was due to anti-fungal medication. This same reaction happened about 17 years ago due to taking an anti-depressant, Celexa. Taking Celexa was one of the worst experiences of my life, other than this year with the anti-fungal. Celexa not only gave me terrible insomnia but, terrible memory issues, headaches, sweating, anorexia, and I started to develop serotonin syndrome. My doctor was totally ignorant of my side effects and just told me I could always check into the hospital under a 5150 hold.
I know everyone’s’ body chemistry is different, and anti-depressants are very helpful to some people. I didn’t take the med while doing SRT, because I had no issues with insomnia before starting it. Be careful about going down the medication route. For me, instead of taking an SSRI, I should have shopped for a better therapist or just someone who could have suggested some lifestyle changes due to a very stressful family and self-employment environment at the time. I know this is extreme, but you asked, so here is my experience.
Mac0908 – I think just the fact that you have accepted healing from insomnia will take a long time is such a positive step in “letting go”. If you’ve only had two bad nights in two weeks, that is major progress, do you feel any better during the daytime? What do you think your average amount of sleep per night has been for the last 2 weeks?
I think I’ve reached a turning point in healing. Since Nov. 1st, I’ve had only 2 bad nights, however, I can see how my brain still needs further healing. Like last night, I worked later until 9:30pm, had a late dinner and went to bed at 11:30pm. Although I fell asleep almost right away (a miracle for me) I was waking every 2 hours, my brain was hyperaroused – dreaming and replaying all my work activities all night long. What I tried to do was acknowledge I was indeed sleeping, and that I can get up, get a cup of water, use the bathroom and go back to sleep, because “I was actually sleeping!” In the past, the anxiety of thinking I was awake was enough to make me wide awake. That light sleep is tricky to deal with.
Jonathan – so glad you finished the Sleep Book. I took notes and reviewed a lot after reading it. Just remember getting over insomnia in general takes a while. The Sleep Book gives a 5 week course, but in reality, I’d say it might be more like a 5 month process. I hope you don’t have withdrawal from stopping the sleep-aids, you can stop them slowly as in a short amount of time I believe you’ll have better daytime energy by just relaxing and resting in bed and then you can get away with the nil night sleep now and then you’ll realize you won’t feel so bad and the meds aren’t needed so much. Staying in the light sleep stage for longer than normal seems to be the norm if you’ve had chronic insomnia. If you notice it, just tell yourself you are sleeping, in a light sleep stage but sleeping and hopefully you’ll gently drift off again.
Hi Steve – hope you are over your cold and your truck is repairable. I just wanted to say I had your recent sleep pattern of good sleep 7-8 hrs one night, the next 2-3 hours for what felt like the last three weeks of October. It was if the one good night sleep made me feel so good and had so much energy that I couldn’t sleep the following night.
Since Nov 1st, I’ve been getting mostly normal sleep, 6.5 hrs to sometimes 9 hours. (9 hrs is too much, but maybe my body is trying to catch up). Since 11/1, I’ve had two poor nights sleep, one night almost nil sleep and two nights ago 2-3 hrs sleep. Both nights I feel my events during the day brought on hyperarousal at night and also both nights my husband was up for several hours too. He has kidney dialysis 3x week and often gets muscle cramps at night or just feels anxiety after the treatment.
After reading Borgesbi’s post, I just had to write that I too think it is amazing – all your insights are so helpful!
My update and quick summary. Started ACT Aug 1st, had slow and erratic improvement through August and Sept. About Oct 1st I had one week of normal sleep then for the next 3 weeks I’d range from zero to 8 hours of sleep per night, probably averaging 4.5 = 5 hours per night. Because I was resting in bed at night, my energy during the day improved and I felt better. Since Nov 1st, I’ve had mostly normal nights sleep again, about 8 hours if my cat does not wake me up too early. Three nights ago I had what felt like a no-sleep night, in Deb’s post above mine, she describes well what I was going through. I feel like I was in light sleep for 45 min, then was awake for about 5 hours, sometimes feeling like I would drift off, only to get alert a few moments after drifting and then in light sleep for the last hour. I had to work a short 4-hour shift the next day and didn’t feel bad at all!
From Borgesbi’s post, I’d have to agree with the comments about the arousal system being on for my nil sleep night. No anxiety, I had just slipped into a bad pattern of something from my pre-insomnia life and I believe it contributed to insomnia that night. I had an early morning class for tax preparation – I didn’t go outside for exercise, I forgot to eat, stayed after class and got obsessed with doing computer work in advance so then I also forgot to drink and hydrate, then decided I need some fresh clothes for work, I went to the mall for 2 hours which really overwhelms me. Too many choices, I generally shop online. So I basically treated myself poorly. Then before bed, my husband made a neutral comment that he noticed my sleep seemed to be improving and that might have caused me to over monitored my sleep. My sleep doctor said insomnia will be a lifelong issue for me, so thinking about it as a chronic disease is very helpful. So I just wanted to say to everyone to not be discouraged, stay patient, you will have some setbacks, and you will slowly recover and feel better.
Mac – you asked about my insomnia experience. I had it since I was a child. I often could not fall asleep and would open my blinds and read books with the light of the streetlights shining in. Sometimes I would be up until 2am and if I went to sleep I’d have this same confused, repetitive dream. I was very neglected as a child and therefore I think there is this continued underlying anxiety with me. To get over anxiety I have to really dig deep to find the core origin of it, and the same with insomnia, had to really dig deep to find out what is preventing sleep on various nights. I studied to be in the healthcare profession and enjoy reading about physiology and stuff. When Deb mentioned the amygdala and ACT I searched them both and found articles about mindfulness meditation being able to heal the amygdala after about 8 weeks of practice. I also read people’s recovery stories and realized recovery could take several months if almost a year, and then thought about my progress and realized that once I started to recover, it would be most likely a minimum of 4 months. With all that, I felt I had realistic goals and so I could accept a slow process, learned to have patience and just accept that I had insomnia, talk about it more openly to get it off my mind, and when I did that, others would open up to me about their experiences and usually they did more of the talking and it seemed to be therapuetic to both of us. The reason I brought up my childhood is that my brain has probably learned these insomnia pathways and likes them and often would revert back to them. That is were the mindfulness can help override these pathways, but I read they never go away. Prior to ACT I was listening to guided YouTube videos for about 20 minutes almost daily. My adult daughter recently began to have epilepsy again after several years of remission. Her neurologist talked about the brain just liking certain pathways, he could not explain why the brain chooses or likes certain pathways, but recommended she start taking medication now to disrupt the brain pathways that are causing the seizures before they become too comfortable.
This year my insomnia developed from taking a medication, terbinafine for toe nail fungus. I was probably the 1-2% of the population who had insomnia as a side affect. I didn’t understand what was happening at first and took the medication for almost 3 weeks. The medication is designed to stay in your system for about 12 weeks. So I was destined to have chronic insomnia for 3 months, terfinafine seemed so powerful that even Ambien was only about 50% effective, plus I had other awful side effects. I feel I could have recovereda bit sooner but developed anxiety towards sleep. The situation was that at the start of my insomnia, my spouse was dating another woman. He came home about the time I was almost falling asleep, so then the dog would bark and startle me, then he would often make some food, banging dishes around in the kitchen anywhere between 10pm-1am. I didn’t care about the dating, but the late-night noise caused me to have anticipatory anxiety, and then I never could relax at night. I went to a sleep doctor and had a sleep study. The doctor also treats my husband. I told him what I just wrote and the doc advised to sleep in a separate room and suggested SC. I did this for about 3-4 weeks. We have a small place, and so I ended up sleeping on the floor in my daughter’s art studio, very uncomfortable. The SC helped for about 2-3 weeks, then the routine of it started to give me anxiety. Just prior to insomnia I had painted and redecorated my bedroom. I really liked it and wanted to get back into my comfortable place. And set my mind to take back my bedroom. Then about 3 weeks later I read about ACT from this forum and tried it. During the process of acceptance, something might trigger a negative event from the past, I would welcome it at night and if it persisted I would search online for strategies to cope with it and have compassion for myself. Often during the day I would lean into the uncomfortable thought or feeling and name it. And then say, sleep anxiety, career regrets, or resentment is taking a hike with me today. Then when I was done with my hike I’d recheck to see what was still with me. Often something dropped out, and if a happy emotion came along like Joy I’d welcome Joy with me in the car ride home. I feel like ACT helped me psychologically deal with negative emotions and events by really feeling them and learning to accept them and that made them easier to let go, not obsessing over them which can be terrible when you have sleep-onset insomnia. Plus lying and just relaxing in bed gives me more energy to get through the day, and the busier I am the less I think about insomnia. I do struggle sometimes, if the lite sleep is bothering me or if I’m struggling I often get up, go downstairs, get some water, give my body a little massage, go back upstairs and often I can get back to sleep. Its like a reset. My sleep doc also told me I am in lite sleep for too long and just remind myself I am in lite sleep, I am sleeping, and this message is sometimes just enough to put me back to sleep. FYI, I did take a lot of Ambien between March and July. Started ACT in August, took Ambien about 1x week in August and now 2 months since my last Ambien. Sorry this is so lengthy, but its a complicated story.
