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Yeah deb I hear you. Similar to you, even with my MUCH lessened almost gone “on the surface” anxiety as I’ll refer to it as, I’ll admit that me going in my bed at 11:30pm, I definitely can have those thoughts creep in a bit about “well, I have to be up at 6, what if I don’t fall asleep rather soon”. I just feel like the longer this process actually goes on, the more draining it gets. I don’t even know what to do so differently anymore. I’m going to try and go back to 11:30p-6a for a week or so, I know things will probably improve, but then what? when does it get to a point where you actually legitimately start to get better and start sleeping well again on a routine basis? As much as I’ve improved, even in this last month I’ve still been good for at least ONE zombie day a week and at least one other semi bad night. Now I know what you and everyone will say, well that’s great progress! Wow! But what you don’t get is that it means I am STILL struggling all this time later. Over 2.5 months to be exact.
Very bad night last night. Seems like I’ve officially relapsed. What a turn of events since coming home from vacation having forgotten about my insomnia. Basically I went in my bed at 10:15p last night, thought it was very tired, but had some stuff on my mind and didn’t crash for almost an hour until around 11:15p. Unusual for me. But, there was no real sleep anxiety. I relaxed. I know I’ve made progress. Figured I’d just nod off and hopefully get 6.5. That was until I awoke at some point in the early AM. Though I didn’t look at my clock like Delv suggested, I knew full well it was probably estimated to be around 4:30am. I tried dozing back off but it didn’t work. Eventually I passed back out for maybe 15-20 mins or so before my alarm went off at 6am. I then snoozed for 20 whole minutes out of absolute desperation. While today marks my first back to back zombie day in a long time, I’m still trying to stay positive. Tonight I will finally return back to SRT. 11:30pm-6am. I will force myself to stay up. While I’m pretty devastated that its come to this after over 2.5 months now, and that I have to pretty much go “Back to square one”, I guess its nice to know I have the peace of mind and tools to use here in this tough time. Question in the back of mind though is, when will I ever TRULY get over this hell?
Deb, first, I think your plan is great and you know just as well as I do that less can very well mean more when it comes to sleep. I did try an 11:30pmbedtime the other night as I said and still woke at 530a, but that was after all just one night. I’m a big believer that staying consistent is key and if I did this every night, things would gradually get better.
To your question, no, to be honest, its not at the same time every night. Most nights I’ll head to bed around 10:30p but there are plenty when I am legit tired and go to bed at 10p. I usually end up crashing a half hour later. This past weekend for example I didn’t go into bed until around 11 or later. This is a problem, I know, bc clearly I’m not fully healed at all. But its just awful to think that after over 2.5 months what do I have to do? Go back to square one and create the semi strict sleep window? (i.e. 11:30-6a) ??
Maybe I do. After all, its obvious that I still need some kind of help. I don’t care anymore than I’m “Better than I was”. I’m over that. I sit here again today at work a zombie. Earlier I thought it was just a “tired day”, but no, its bad.
Thanks Delv. Of course I check the clock bc obviously I know all my times lol. But I think you’re right. I have this idea in my head that looking at the clock isn’t a big deal and doesn’t really affect me, but the reality is it probably does. Even if it doesn’t in that exact moment, the thought is then ingrained in my head for the day that I woke up too early. I woke up at 5am, whatever it might be. So thanks for the advice. Going to revert back to my old way of simply never looking at the clock for the time being. We’ll see how that works out.
Over 2.5 months since I turned over a new leaf and began to try and seriously take care of my Insomnia, and I am still having these bad nights. Nothing at all like I was having before these 2.5 months and nothing at all like even back in January or Feb, bc yes, I’ve improved, but still, bad nights that I feel should be totally gone for the most part at this stage. Crashed at 11. Woke at 5:05am. Why? No clue. Went to bed pretty tired though not completely shot. I’ve simply been trying different formula’s. If something doesn’t work, obviously the answer is to try something different. That’s been the key to getting better for me after so long.
But still, today I’m pretty shot, and frustrated. The other night I tried going to bed later for the first time in a long time, crashing around 11:30pm. Certainly this would get me to my 6am alarm, right? Nope. Up I was at 5:35am. 6 hours of sleep and very tired during the day. So, whether or not this endless 6-6.5 hour routine will ever end I don’t know. Right now I’m trying to “accept” it. But the bags under my eyes tell me that might not be the best route. Sitting here today knowing I’ve improved over time, but still feel kind of lost for sure.
This is because you still have significant underlying anxiety that is preventing you from having truly restful sleep. Trust me, I’ve been there. I’m still there.
Deb what time did you actually fall asleep and rise? Whats your normal bedtime these days?
I’m actually going to try and implement my own person version of ACT in the coming weeks. As you know it seems I have a ceiling of 6.5 hours max which I have always been very frustrated about. Can’t naturally sleep 7 or more straight for the life of me. Beginning tonight I’m going to start “accepting” the fact that 6.5 hours is a good/regular night for me. Will see how that mentality works out.
Went 11:30-530 last night
tired today but not a zombie
I gotta say Deb you have a great attitude towards all of this. Most would still be feeling very frustrated and broken. I feel like in due time you will be just fine! Acceptance is a huge part of fixing this problem.
I know I reached broken record status quite a while ago now, but again, just so very frustrated over here. Bad night last night. As I said before, its amazing just how better I was sleeping on vacation and then even after returning home from vacation. I “forgot” about insomnia. Now all of a sudden it seems to have crept back. Maybe I started keeping more of an eye on the clock at night. Maybe I started thinking more about what a bad night would be like. Maybe me turning the lights off and winding down in the living room started giving me anxious thoughts, etc. And wouldn’t you know it, the last couple of nights have been suspect, most especially last night. The usual. Crashed around 11:15p. Woke at 5am. Tried to fall back asleep but it was just in and out light sleep until my 6am alarm. Zombie today. 2.5 months of really trying to get better. Am I better than I was the 2 years prior? ABSOLUTELY. But I don’t just want to be semi better. I want these awful nights completely gone at this point.
Hi everyone. Deb i’m sorry but not much time to read this entire thread.. what exactly have you changed with regards to going from SRT to ACT? Seems like ACT is more Guy Meadows’ approach, no?
Just an interesting tidbit from me. Was on vacation recently. A whole bunch of things going on in the 5 days I was away. Naturally, i forgot about any sleep issues, much like Sasha Stephens explained in her book when she went on holiday. This is the brain not being able to keep up with insomnia worry because there is so much else going on to worry about instead (i.e. the fun of vacation).
Upon returning home something even more interesting happened. Bc of jetlag, I found myself absolutely exhausted by 9pm some nights. Could NOT stay away. The tiredness completely overrode any anxiety and I was out like a light by 9:30 a couple of nights before I readjusted. On those nights I slept a good 7 hours. The first time I got a good 7 hours sleep in MONTHS. Those who have been following me may know I simply cannot get more than 6-6.5. Point of the story is the more tired you are at bedtime, the better the sleep tends to me, at least in my opinion.
In general, I have since been sleeping ok since readjusting to regular EST. It seems as if the “forgetting” of my insomnia from vacation has carried over well. Still, I have reverted back to my old ways on a night or two, going to bed at 1030pm, crashing at 11 and waking too early at 5a. This past Tuesday was a zombie day for example.
I think i’ve realized once and for all that as long as I go to bed before 11pm, I’m in trouble and my brain, body, mind, whatever you want to call it , just doesn’t allow me to sleep to my 6am alarm in this case. Going to try and religiously go to sleep around 11:15ish starting tonight and will see what happens.
Hi Deb thanks for reaching out. I was on vacation overseas so sleep to me hasn’t really been a thing in the last week or so. Interesting thing to point out though that when I returned I was very jet lagged the first few nights back home and by 9pm I could NOT stay awake. Felt more exhausted than I ever have. I couldn’t think of anything but going to bed. I did, and I slept 7 hours for two nights in a row. Just goes to show you how important going to sleep SHOT really is. It overrides most of the anxiety and will usually get you a better night of sleep, at least in my history. Problem was that these nights of going to sleep at 9pm were like the equivalent of going to sleep at 3am which is why I was so tired. That’s not realistic on a daily basis of course but it has definitely just been a reminder to never enter that bedroom unless we are completely sleepy/exhausted/eyes droopy!
how are you doing ?
Also to answer your first question Martin, I do not have a legitimate strict sleep window. I follow what i’d like to call a “light” SRT method over the last 2 months where I only go to bed when completely exhausted, however I DO wake up at the same time everyday which is 6am. (6:30 on weekends now though)
Initially before I began this on 1/1/19 I would rarely be very tired before bed so I started doing 11:30pm to 6am and would be tired and would usually sleep through the night. This eventually increased my sleep pressure and sleep drive to the point where I would now begin getting tired around 10:30pm on average. This was my normal bedtime for years and before this chronic insomnia began 2.5 years ago. Problem NOW however unlike then, is that after I eventually drift off around 11pm, as you know will wake around 5am, sometimes 5:30 the latest. I can never make it to my 6am alarm. Maybe a few very rare occasions I’ve woke at 5:45a.
Eddy thank you for understanding. It is very frustrating. I know all about the bags under the eyes as well as many other awful things associated with what I like to refer to as zombie days.
Martin, thank you so much for responding. You ask why I’m so determined to sleep more than 6/6.5. The answer is simple. It’s simply not enough sleep for me. How could it be my individual sleep need if I feel like crap the next day? 6.5 hours I can usually get by just fine, I’ll admit. But 6 is where it’s just not enough, though I can push through.
On occasion I will wake after 6 hours on a weekend night and then fall back asleep for an extra hour (due to no work alarm to worry about going off in the next hour) thus bringing my total to 7, and guess what, I feel good that day. I know it’s not great at all to worry about “totals” and how much we slept, when we slept etc, but it just is what it is. My sleep anxiety is very low and I’m ok with the counting. What I’m not ok with anymore is constantly coming up just short of nights that will make me feel rested.
To answer your question, throughout my life yes, there have been a few of those instances when I’d sleep for 7-8 but feel poor the next day. Didn’t get deep good sleep or whatever it may have been. Rare, but it’s happened.
Delv no offense but I don’t think you understood my situation. You are making it sound like I have control over how long I can sleep. I can’t “gradually increase” anything. No matter what time I go to sleep, even when I’m completely tired, I can never sleep past 6.5 hours. This also has nothing to do with my body’s age and not needing this extra sleep. I go through my days tired just like I’m tired today. It’s not normal or healthy to live like that. It’s normal to be refreshed and to achieve this feeling I need 7 hours, though I can get by on 6.5.
With regards to my anxiety, it took me finally having a serious structure in place. Before the new year when I began this all, I’d go to my bed around 10:15-10:30p every night pretty much no matter what, usually when I wasn’t totally tired. I’d also sleep in on weekends all the time. I had to discipline myself and retrain my brain (and body) in order to rid myself of a lot of anxiety. This meant only going into the bed once completely exhausted now, but more importantly, always waking at the same time, EVEN on the weekends, which was tough for me. My alarm during the week is 6am, and on weekends it was the same, though now I push to 6:30am on the weekends which is ok. Slowly but surely, my sleep anxiety decreased for all the obvious reasons we know of when it come to SRT/CBT-I. In the early stages if I ever woke during the night and legit couldn’t fall back asleep, I’d get up and out of the bed. The idea of course is to create a connection between the bed and the brain that is sleep ONLY of course, and it’s anything but a quick fix. I’m 2 months in now after 2+ years of being a chronic insomniac, and only now am I feeling more comfortable in saying that my anxiety is definitely very low.
Still doesn’t change the fact that I’m struggling in a pretty big way with regards to my being unable to ever sleep past 6/6.5 hours though. I suppose one solution some would suggest is to force push my bedtime to 12a which would get me to my alarmat 6a, and then slowly move my bedtime back once I’m comfortable in that spot, but I just don’t understand why I would need to do that if my sleep anxiety is so significantly reduced at this point. Plus, making it to 12am is probably an impossible task for me. By 10:30pm the latest my eyes are drooping every night. I believe your problem all along is lack of discipline on yourself. You need to understand that you have a traumatized nervous system and it will take some serious work to help reverse that.
Mac
