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Whitelori. Who you are cannot be derived by the thinking mind. The thinking mind is what is comprised of thoughts, emotions, etc and it is what dominates most if not all of our existence. It is a false sense of self that really just exists for survival. It almost reminds me of a curtain, that is draped in front of us and we don’t even realize it’s there. But when the curtain is removed, you then see that WHO YOU ARE cannot be “thought” but it can only be felt. You cannot think of who you are. You FEEL it as a deep down unshakable peace. A peace that radiates in your belly. A peace that exists Regardless of thoughts or what is going on in your life. Just Like how the ocean beneath the waves is calm. You are the ocean in its entire vastness and stillness. Your thoughts and emotions are the waves. They are superficial, meaningless and inconsequential. They pale in comparison to WHO YOU ARE, who is enternal and beyond depths of thought. This must be felt. It cannot be understood.
Hey Deb. Thanks to you as well for being encouraging through this process. I was cautionary to post any of the details, as I tried to help some others and was called ‘pretentious’ for saying that meditation can cure anxiety based insomnia. I’ve also been told by many people that meditation made them worse, so they quit. Unfortunately, I believe those who are angered by the suggestion of meditation, or who are made worse by meditation, are the very ones who need it the absolute most. This was certainly the case for me. I became much, much worse before I got better. This is an extremely personal journey, and each person ultimately has to find their own way it seems. The difference for me was I did not quit. I went through the depths of hell on this journey, no doubt. And I feel I have the most precious gift imaginable to show for it. For me, the most powerful informational tool was listening to the power of now by Eckhartt Tolle on audio book. I have very little reading time in my day, but I found I had plenty of time I can listen to headphones. I did not watch TV, or listen to music. Every waking second I had the opportunity, I listened to the power of now. I use to think this stuff was full of crap and Eckartt was some new age business man praying on our societal neuroticism and essential breakdown as a collective whole. But nonetheless for some reason, I still gave it a shot. I don’t know why I felt drawn to it, It wasn’t recommended to me by anyone. But, I gave it a shot. When I first listened to the whole book I thought, OK I get it, but big deal. Well, even though I thought I ‘got it’, I didn’t. I wasn’t even close. I had no clue the depth to which the book points. I say “points’ because the book cannot lead you to freedom, it can only suggest that there is another way. Its simply the catalyst that, coupled with watching thoughts, brought me to the other side of existence. But, it was a painful journey as mentioned. It got much worse before it got better. For hours every day, I watched my thoughts, and was tormented by them. They were like demons who I couldn’t separate from. No matter how much I watched them, they came back more demanding and frequent. They intensified, they told me I was stuck, and to kill myself. The more I watched them the more they grew. I was on the floor begging for forgiveness, day in and day out. Crawling on the floor… literally. I wanted to quit so bad.
Now the day things shifted for me, after many months of misery, came as a surprise. It may be difficult to describe, but I will try my best. One day, while watching my thoughts and feeling positive about life in general for a change, I realized that even my positive thoughts were thoughts. I then realized my thought that I should meditate was a thought. My thought that I should watch my thoughts, was a thought. That every happy thought was a thought and everything, every single thing, every emotion, every mood, was a thought. I know this may sound obvious or as some sort of superficial description. But the depths to which this reality struck were enormous. I think what happened was I was always watching my “bad” thoughts. Or negative thoughts. But the moment I realized all thoughts are thoughts, and thinking mind derived and thus inconsequential, is the moment I truly shifted. The shift was cataclysmic. I realized I no longer had to be tormented, as the tormentor wasn’t real. I couldn’t disassociate before because I was still associated with my positive thoughts. I felt a rush of extreme euphoria when I realized how to watch ALL thoughts. What I liken heroin must be like. I felt an intense love for my wife and son, like I never had before. I live in a beautiful coastal town and stared at a old Mossy Oak tree like it was the first time I had ever seen it. Because without my thinking mind, it was the first time I saw it. The immense joy of FELT being, without the mind labeling or judging, is incredible. This is something that must be felt. You cannot think it. And you cannot get there overnight. It is like lifting weights, very labor intensive and requires ultimate commitment. You cannot seek it out either, you must practice and allow everything that comes without pursuit. You must give in, turn over and accept almost like a turtle turning belly up in the sand. It is uncomfortable, demoralizing and painful. As Eckhartt says tho, there is nothing to tell you that you do not already know deep down inside.Hey Guys! I haven’t read the recent posts but just wanted to check back and tell you all i’m free! I sleep like a baby now. I have been practicing meditation non stop for months and had a huge shift in consciousness. Like a switch flipping. I’m able to watch all of my thoughts, emotions and feelings and I no longer get tied up in them because I realize they are not even me. They are no more than fuzzies floating in the sky a mile away. Why be concerned over a fuzzy in the sky? The thinking mind just creates endless fuzzies floating in the sky. You need to learn how to non judgmentally observe all of these thoughts (fuzzies). Good or bad, none of them are WHO YOU ARE. This basically equates to the epitome of ACT, as I accept literally everything. I’ve had nights where I can’t sleep for the first hour or two, and I literally don’t care, so I always pass out and wake up to the birds singing. SRT failed miserably with me FYI. It sucked. I just had to be kinder to myself and set time aside every day to observe my thinking mind and emotions etc. Insomnia is the BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO ME. I’m not kidding! I had no idea it was possible to live this free. I almost feel like I took a benzo, but I feel like that all day and night now. So relaxed and free. Guys, this is possible. I’m not some weirdo who’s on drugs, I have a family and a high paying job etc. I’m just a normal guy who found this other realm of existence. Waiting in traffic now is a pleasure, because I turn it into meditation. All you who are struggling read my posts. And KNOW that I now sleep 8 hours a night. You will be free as well. Just keep meditating, keep accepting.
Mac and Deb. When you did SRT, what was the experience like when your sleep drive finally over rode your anxiety? I was so beyond exhaustion yesterday, every time I sat down I would start microsleeping so I stayed on my feet all day. At night I couldn’t sit down in the recliner because I would fall asleep instantaneously. My window for sleep was approaching and I couldn’t take it anymore and went to bed a half hour early. I fell right asleep and woke up in half an hour! I felt wide awake again. I got out of bed several times and back in trying to do stimulus control and just became more awake. I feel shattered. Around 2am I took half a benzo and slept till 5. I feel so, so sad. I have been working so hard at this. Maintaining a positive attitude during the day despite pure exhaustion. Practicing mindfulness. Faithfully waking up at my alarm even when sleeping deeply. I went to bed last night thinking tonight was the night I crash. And it would have been an all nighter if it weren’t for taking meds. I just don’t know what to do man. How could I have been that tired and still not just crashed through the night? My wife thinks I should just abandon it and go to bed at regular times. Guys, I’m so lost. I’m trying so hard. I just can’t believe I didn’t fall asleep last night naturally when my head hit the pillow. I don’t know what direction to go in.
Chen. I’m not a great role model of success here. But I read a quote that said. “If you’re not willing to accept sleeploss in the short term, you may never know what it’s like to sleep well in the long term.” This is super difficult, no doubt. But think of it like this, if you commit now, maybe in 6 months or a year you will be sleeping well again. If you don’t commit now, you may be in the same spot next year still looking for a way out. That’s what’s getting me through right now.
First night of SRT with SC. Trouble falling asleep as usual. I found getting out of bed and doing dishes helped me a lot. I slept 3.5 hours when I went back to bed and then ACT allowed me to fall back asleep another 1.5 hours until my alarm.
Question about naps. Some books allow them like say goodnight to insomnia. Some strictly forbid.
I find a nap helpful because
1) this is ALL a mental game. In the middle of the night naps help calm me down knowing I can nap mid day tmrw if I’m having a terrible night tonight to at least feel human at some point.
2)A nap helps prove to me I can sleep and am not broken (I nap much quicker and easier than I do fall sleep at night)
3) a nap helps me feel less horrible and get rid of headaches and body aches associated with this Extreme lack of sleep. Hence they make lack of sleep less worrisome because I’m not as physically symptomatic All day. 4) they relieve a little of the psychological sleep pressure I put in myself at night. If I dont feel terrible going to bed, I don’t go to bed thinking “omg if I don’t fall asleep right away I’m gonna die and I can’t take another night.” Instead I go to bed like “I’m really really tired but I don’t feel like I’ll die tonight if I don’t sleep, just cry And that’s ok.”But I don’t want to nap if
1) it will hurt my progress long term.What do you guys think!
Thanks to both of you for the replies. It means the world to me right now. I sat down and wrote everything out. Last two times I had bouts of insomnia, I used ACT and mindfulness and was successful. This was due to the fact that I had sleep maintenance insomnia. I was falling asleep immediately. Sleeping 4 hours and then waking with anxiety. Because I had already slept a solid bit, and I was in the half sleep state, ACT allowed me to fall back asleep and I solved my problems.
THIS time it’s sleep onset. Which is a totally different animal for me it seems. I can do ACT and mindfulness all day. And feel OK to help my daytime feelings. But as soon as bed times comes closer, I shift From almost falling asleep in the recliner to being very nervous In my stomach. More physical sensations then mental. I transfer to bed, and as I lay there and accept etc, the nervousness in my stomach just grows. I find I will usually fall into a half awake half asleep state, in which I’ll then come out of within about half an hour to an hour. At which point I realize I have not fallen asleep, and then my anxiety grows. I once again stay calm, but I know Deb like you say, it’s still there deep down inside. I’ll lay there and accept and become more awake. I’ll start sweating a bit etc. then eventually I’m hyper alert. Eyes will be closed, and I’m not totally freaking out, but I’m soooo far from sleep. It’s like this eyes closed but wide awake feeling. And I can’t get out of it then. And the whole night is spent accepting and staying mentally calm. But remaining in this very alter Eyes closed state. I feel like the good nights are the ones where I fall asleep for a few hours. Because if I can fall asleep for 3 or so hours. I have to tools to get myself back to sleep. It’s just that initial hurdle ! Does this give you guys any more insight for opinions ? Thanks again!
Thanks Mac! I owe ya. I’m re-reading your old posts and we are definitely very similar. I’m going to jump right in. So just to be clear, after several nights of bad sleep and absolutely sticking to a strict window, you eventually find yourself so tired that you’d go to bed and the sleep drive overrides the anxiety? Did you follow the stimulus control of getting out of bed? And finally, did you work during this, was it totally brutal for you, or not as bad as you thought? Thank you!
Yes I definitely am! I’m going to just give SRT a try then. Did the introduction of a sleep window make you even more nervous? I think that’s my hesitation. I’m already obviously anxious, and the idea of limiting sleep makes me even more anxious. I kind of view the start of the window like a race flag, knowing if I don’t fall right to sleep i’m going to be in trouble. Did this happen to you in the beginning?
MAC, question for you. I’m so confused right now because I decided not to try SRT and two nights ago I gave myself a decent sleep window of 7 hours and I slept great. Last night I did the same and I barely slept 2 hours. I lay there with acceptance, watching thoughts. My heart rate is fine, mentally i’m calm, but I am extremely nervous in the stomach. Did this ever happen to you? Whereas you mentally feel OK, but your physically nervous? I felt fine all day yesterday. I didn’t even think about sleep. I was watching TV with the wife around 9PM and all of a sudden felt nervous. I wasn’t thinking much though, but still the sensation of being nervous in the pit of my stomach (butterflies) started strongly. I accepted it, knew I couldn’t change it and I could sleep with it there. But, I laid in bed and kind of went half into this wake/sleep state for half an hour, woke up, and then couldn’t get back to sleep. I’ll just lay there all night. Accepting, mentally calm, slow heart rate etc.. But still feel nervous and be wide awake with my eyes closed. I’m not sure why I still have such a strong physical reaction when I am mentally accepting. Any experience with this?
No, I could wake up at 9am if I wanted to. But, I’ve always slept from 930pm to 6am (when I was a great sleeper). I much prefer the mornings versus the night time. I wanted to come up with a reduced number of hours in bed, and since I like mornings more than evenings, I decided to wake up extra earlier, versus going to bed extra late. I would have probably slept till 9AM this morning if I didn’t have the alarm set though. But I’ve read cautionary tales of insomniacs sleeping terrible for 5 days and then sleeping 9 hours, and then repeating. So, I reluctantly made myself get out of bed even though I’m still exhausted, in hopes of maintaining some sleep drive for tonight again.
Follow up question for you guys. I notice my body aches, almost like the flu. Does this happen to you from lack of sleep? Also, for the first time in my life I have some depression. Any experience with this? I’ve been chronically happy my whole life. I’ve maintained full time jobs, hobbies, having a newborn and running my own furniture shop. I’ve never sat still. I’m definitely lacking motivation right now for anything. I think moving to a new area, and not even being able to make friends due to Covid hurts a lot. Also, did you guys ever feel like you’re afraid of social obligations due to the insomnia? That’s another tough one for me. My old friends back home I’d have no concern with hanging out when I’m exhausted. But I almost feel reluctant to make social plans with people I don’t know here, in fear I will have 4 days of no sleep before the event, and be surrounded by people I need to make a good impression on. This insomnia striking like this after a move is the worst ! I’d be so much more content being back home with my family and friends and support group.
So. Ironically last night I just said screw it, and went to bed at 945 when I was tired. Laid and accepted the anxiety, and then woke up 4 hours later. Laid and accepted again, and woke up @ my alarm at 4:45AM. So I got almost 7 hours of sleep. It would have been a lot more sleep if not for alarm, but I don’t want to push it and sleep too long. It’s interesting you guys said that what has helped you most is not having a required schedule. Last few times what dug me out of this hole was the same thought process. I work from home, so I have a flex schedule as well. Took some benzos when I needed them and just chilled out. And I just started sleeping in and not being so concerned with all the details. So, I don’t have a clue what to do now! ACT is easier to do and I seem to recover quicker, but relapse so much. SRT is stressful as heck, but I don’t know maybe it would provide longer term stability. I also wonder if maybe just using ACT, and relapsing and recovering enough, I will realize that I always can recover and it will take away some of the stress of “worrying if it comes back.” I mean, this is quite the affliction. It’s all in our heads. We just can’t get out of our own way. It’s such a weird predicament
Deb- I previously had sleep maintenance and to recover When I woke in the middle of the night I did deep breathing exercises. Took some drugs And focused on being kind to myself. I Allowed naps to curb daytime anxiety about the upcoming nights. Basically did everything the opposite of what they say to do! I was able to quit the drugs and was sleeping great and most nights I was able to fall back asleep eventually. But every single night before going to bed I was still nervous. It was always in the back of my mind. In hindsight I felt like I was holding on by a thread. Like I didn’t really learn about my insomnia. I just took some drugs , napped and learned some relaxation techniques and learned to navigate the middle of the night wakenings and how to fall back asleep.
But now I have sleep onset. It’s a whole other beast. The horrifying thing about onset is I have tons and tons of nights of no sleep at all now. I didn’t think it was possible to go so long without any sleep. If I fall asleep for a few hours right away, it seems I have an ok night. But fewer and fewer nights now Am I able to fall asleep. It takes several hours. Sometimes 4 to 5. Laying in bed for 8.5 hours gives me a few hours of sleep this way. I’m heavy into reading Guy Meadows and meditation. I’ve learned to watch thoughts and accept. Turn feelings into little objects etc. this works great during the day but so soon as I go and lay down, I’m bombarded. Absolutely overwhelmed by thoughts and extreme nervousness. I feel like I’m on a rollercoaster. And As soon as I go an hour or two without being able to fall asleep, it’s like a death spiral. ACT and mindfulness take me hours and hours to pull myself out of the spiral and get some sleep. So I was thinking of SRT. To increase drive. But it definitely has made me even more nervous. Ugh sorry this is such a Long reply. Hanging on by a thread here !
Thanks for asking. So it started October 2019. I moved to a new state with my wife and son. We wanted to follow our dream of living on the beach. My new job is extremely stressful though. Whereas my old one was really easy. And when we got here, we were staying in a busy city and apartment, Which we were not used to. We had previously lived on a farm with peaceful surroundings. The neighbors upstairs in the new apartment were so loud I couldn’t sleep and I was just overwhelmed. Overwhelmed with work, with the apartment life, missing family and friends and the land. One night it’s like a switch flipped. Couldn’t sleep anymore. I used a benzo for a few days and sleep returned. Quit the benzo. Bought a house, and one day after moving into the house on the beach I thought, what if this happens again? And it did. This time for many months. It was excruciating. Ultimately I took a benzo again and pulled out of it. I quit the benzo and I slept well for 3 months until a month ago. I had one night where I woke up after 10 min of falling asleep. And felt real nervous. I could barely get back to sleep that night. But I did. Next night, I was extra nervous, and i tried to go to bed early (big mistake in hindsight) I slept even less. This continued on until I am at the point today where it’s been a month Now of worse and worse sleep every single day. Every day I practice mindfulness and ACT and realize all my missteps previously trying to control and how I tried to go to bed early etc. but even armed with this info now, it doesn’t seem to help! I can manage some minimal sleep if I spend 8 hours in bed, but I’m still so tired. I’ve had 1 or two all nighters as well. Where I literally am such a mess I don’t sleep at all. I know lots of people think they don’t sleep and they do. But I mean it. I’m wide awake laying there eyes open. I just can’t believe I’m back in this situation again. We have a great life. Life in the beach. Followed our dreams and I feel like this is taking everything away from me! I just don’t know what approach to utilize to move past this. I feel like I’m broken and just somehow will live the rest of my life like this. I know that’s just a thought. But I’m so overwhelmed. It’s hard to stay on top of ACT/mindfulness when your whole body aches and you feel everything is slipping from your control. My job is so hard to do when this tired. And my wife doesn’t know what to think. She’s half annoyed and half comforting.
Thanks for the reply. So I guess my last concern is – will SRT un-do some of the work I did with ACT and ultimately just make me a nervous wreck? It did last night. I just don’t know if I should keep it up, or abandon ship and hope I can somehow pull out again just using ACT and lots of time in bed. The thing is. I know I Can sleep because I’ve recovered before. I feel pretty calm during the day as well, it’s just as soon as I lay my head on the pillow I lose the ability to let go and accept and I’m consumed by my thoughts and feelings. They rush Over me and I literally will sweat through my sheets as I lay in a half sleep half awake state.
