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There was someone else who liked Manuka Honey on this site but I tried Manuka Honey but it didn't really do anything, so I stopped using it. It might work for you, all I can say is it didn't do much for me. I know what you mean about feeling frustrated because there are a number of people who get 8 hours a night with no effort while people like us have to struggle to get a good nights sleep. But my attitude is that these are the cards we have been dealt just like some people get chronic diseases at an early age, so you just have to find a way to deal with it. And there is no one cure fits all for poor sleep as everyone is a little different so you have to experiment a lot to find what helps with sleep. I know 2 people who only get about 4 hours of sleep a night and one takes Trazidone and the other takes Ambien; so sleeping pills only can do so much and as their bodies develop more and more tolerance for the pills they may even get less and less sleep.
I sleep 5-6 hours on average now which is good for me particularly since I am an older person; my sleep has improved from what it was 2 or 3 years ago, and I think tips on insomnialand helped me. Every now and then I have a bad night and maybe get only 3 hours or so for a variety of reasons, but I don't get all upset about it like I used to because I feel I can get back to 5- 6 hours again soon. I do use 5 milligrams of Ambien on bad nights when I can't get back to sleep (I can almost always fall to sleep initially) and that gives me another 2-3 hours sleep. But I have to stress that I do that sparingly (maybe twice a month) since I do not want to be dependent on it; so if I have a second bad night in a row I don't use it. I've never had the strange side effects that some people have using it, but I am only using a low dose infrequently, getting back in bed right away, and of course others might react differently to a sleeping pill. So if you can avoid sleeping pills entirely, do so.
I use a number of things to help sleep at night like certain foods (dried tart cherries, almonds and plain Greek yogurt are good), going to sleep at about the same time, walk twice a day, Badger Sleep Gel, not drinking much in the way of liquids hours before bedtime (avoiding a lot of urination), use of a Chillow (if you are bothered by your pillow getting too warm) and pacing slowly in the dark interspersed with slow breathing periods for about 15-20 minutes before I get into bed. Don't replay in your mind stressful situations from the day; think of non-controversial things, liking making up lists of things. I probably engage in overkill but I do get 5-6 hours now most nights.
I was eventually able to get off the beta blocker blood pressure medicine without my blood pressure soaring although I still take other blood pressure medications. I think the beta blocker is the one most linked to insomnia. My sleep is better now but still not normal (did 4 and 1/2 hours last night). I have never heard that taking blood pressure medications and vitamins together can cause insomnia. I don't take them all in one gulp, but I take my blood pressure pills and a multivitamin at breakfast one right after another.
I've trained myself to go to sleep around 12:30 every night and it seems to work. I almost always fall asleep with 5 to 10 minutes of getting into bed. I feel tired by the time I climb into bed My problem is waking up during the night to go to the bathroom and then getting back to sleep. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I now sleep from 4 to 6 hours almost every night, which is better than 2 years ago when about half the nights I slept about only 2 to 3 hours. I gradually phased out taking a beta blocker blood pressure drug which aggravated my poor ability to sleep and that helped. I take a slow walk at night and finish about 1 and 1/2 hours before I go to bed and I think that helps (I also walk around 1 and 1/2 to 2 hours during the day and go to exercise classes several days a week). I do at lot of other things that may or may not help, like snacking on foods that supposedly help with melatonin production, urinating several minutes before I get into bed (and avoiding fluids for several hours before bedtime), staying awake in a dark bedroom 20 minutes before I climb into bed, paying attention to the overnight temperature to decide on how many blankets to use, how wide the window should be open, whether I should use the fan etc. I even rub Badger Sleep Gel on my face (contains lavender among other things). So I use a mutli-prong attack on insomnia. There is in my opinion no one simple thing that works.
Even with all the stuff I do I don't sleep 7 hours ever and only occasionally 6 hours. Of course what works for me may not work for you so you need to experiment.
I have never been a great sleeper but my sleep problems escalated about two years ago, I think because of a blood pressure medicine I was taking. I gradually got off the medicine and my sleep has improved somewhat but is still below what I want. Last night for example I got 4 3/4 to 5 hours sleep which is good for me. I have been retired for awhile and i don't think retiring had anything to do with my sleep problem – I had more anxieties when I worked. I occasionally take a low dose Ambien when I find I can't get back to sleep and I then get 2 to 3 hours additional sleep. Last month I did that 3 times but I have to be careful to limit use and make sure I don't use the pill more than once a week -otherwise it can interfere with my sleep when I don't use it. I would probably be better off without using it at all but the extra sleep it gives me is tempting. I frankly don't know why some nights I can sleep 4 to 5 hours and other nights I might only get 3 to 4 hours sleep. However, lately I get 4-5 hours about 80% of the time; I think I sleep a little better in winter as the cold makes me tired. You obviously can sleep up to 6 hours as you indicated above, but like me you have bad nights also like when you only got 2 hours. You indicate that you slept better when you worked. That might indicate you need more activity during the day to tire you out. I go to exercise classes at the local senior citizen center and I walk on average 2-3 hours a day (which includes an evening stroll). I don't know if you have any chronic pain issues (I don't) but if you do that can interfere with your sleep. Also don't eat heavy meals within 3 hours of bedtime and in particular avoid spicy or sugary foods near bedtime. I have a nighttime snack before bed of lowfat plain Greek Yogurt, dried unsweetened tart cherries and almonds.which are foods that are supposed to help with sleep. Other foods that can be used as a snack and can help sleep are turkey, oatmeal, kiwi fruit and cheese and crackers. How much these foods really help I don't know but it is worth a try. I also keep my bedroom dark about 1/2 hour before going to bed and I practice deep breathing and very slowly pace the floor during this time period to continue tiring my self. During this time period I also use Badger Sleep Balm on my face, which contains Lavender and Bergamot, which is supposed to relax you for sleep. I also use a humidifier on cold dry winter nights to avoid nasal stuffiness which can interfere with sleep. All this seems to work to an extent, because I usually fall asleep within 5 minutes of going to bed. My problem is whether or not I can get back to sleep when i wake up at night to urinate. Again everyone is different and what works for me may not work for you. As you can see I have had to develop a routine that helps me; you have to work out a routine that works for you. There is no simple easy way to deal with insomnia. Hope this helps – I know operating during the day with 2-3 hours asleep is awful.
What kind of sleeping pill are you taking and how much sleep do you get when you take the pill? It sounds like you get very little without the pill. If you have been on a sleeping pill for a while and try to sleep without it you will have difficulty at first because Ithe brain “looks” for the sleeping pill to fall asleep. It will take a little while for the brain to adjust to sleeping without a pill. Based on what you said in another post, you sleep some during the day which probably interferes with your sleep at night. Everyone is different, but based on my own experience I would suggest no more than one nap of 15-20 minutes in the afternoon before 3 PM. There are a lot of things about bedroom sleep hygiene you might want to look into on the web; also what foods are bad for sleep and what foods are good. Exercise during the day can help as can yoga. Try walking a lot. I still have an insomnia problem but most nights now I sleep between 4 and 5 hours while on bad nights I sleep between 3 and 4 hours. Unlike you I have learned to fall asleep quickly and my problem is falling back to sleep after getting up to go to the bathroom. Note keeping regular sleep hours is important to train your body to sleep at night. Hope this helps you but without knowing what you have or have not tried to do to sleep I can't really tell you anymore.
Are you taking both AdvilPM and Ambien on a regular basis to sleep? You seem to practice good sleep hygiene but still need sleeping pills. Also you indicate you take some kind of medication, which may or may not have some effect on your sleeping ability. Last night I slept 3 1/2 hours without waking but was not able to fall back asleep again. I thought of taking my low dose Ambien to get another couple of hours of sleep but decided against it because it has not been quite a week since I last took an Ambien. I will have to see how things go tonight; in the long run I know I'm better off not using it even on a very limited basis but on the other hand it is nice to get two hours extra of sleep when you need it. I hope my sleep deficit will have built up enough that I can get about 5 hours on my own tonight without a pill. By the way I attend a yoga class as well, although it is “chair yoga.”
I also have been diagnosed with sleep apnea but I can't tolerate the CPAP machine. I take one capsule a night of a herbal concoction called Sleep Apnea Relief put out by Nature's Rite; I really don't know if it helps with apnea. I see you use the CPAP but find it uncomfortable and even with the use of the CPAP you wake constantly. When I wake up it seems to have more to do with having to urinate than anything else. On a typical night I sleep about 3 to 3 1/2 hours then wake up to go to the bathroom. On good nights I can fall back asleep for an hour to an hour and a half once and sometimes twice. So on the average I get 4 to 5 hours sleep a night. Unlike you I am not aware of waking frequently, but you can have sleep apnea and not realize you are waking frequently for short intervals. I don't have the pain issue you seem to have. I try to keep regular sleep hours, practice good sleep hygiene and I only look at the clock after I feel I have been asleep awhile to gage how much sleep I am getting. I walk a lot which I thinks helps me. I use a low dose Ambien to get back to sleep if it looks after awhile like I'm going to say awake after sleeping initially but I don't use it more than once a week. You have to keep in mind that eventually these different type of sleeping pills will stop working, which is why I use the Ambien sparingly. It only gives me 1 1/2 to 2 hours additional sleep. I've tried getting up and doing something when I can't get back to sleep but it doesn't seem to make any difference. Last night I slept initially about three hours but couldn't get back to sleep for what I guess is about an hour but I finally got back to sleep for what I guess is around 45 minutes. I don't know if my experiences help you but at least you know there are others who have similar sleep problems and you are not alone.
Like you I go to bed about 12:30, on the average sleep about 3 hours with no problem and then wake up and have trouble getting back to sleep. Unlike you I usually get only 1 to 2 hours additional sleep, so your 6 hours total sleep looks good from my point of view, though you would like more. Some nights I can't get back to sleep at all. I also have sleep apnea but I can't tolerate the CPAP machine. I take one capsule every night of a herbal concoction called “Sleep Apnea Relief” put out by Nature's Rite for people who can't stand the CPAP; I don't know if it really does any good. What interests me is that despite using the CPAP you still have an insomnia problem, as some have suggested to me that if I could use the CPAP it would alleviate my insomnia problem. In fact, I have a friend who has sleep apnea, tried the CPAP and couldn't tolerate it, but still sleeps about 7 hours a night. By the way my waking up after about 3 hours is triggered by having to go to the bathroom – don't know if that is something you experience. I'm retired, so stress and anxiety are not factors in my insomnia. I even tried sleeping in a hotel room for a couple of weeks to see if that made a difference and if there was something in my room that was the cause, but I had the same sleep pattern in my hotel room. So I don't know if there is much I can tell you that can help you, except that I find walking a lot helps me somewhat. Also there are a lot of people who suffer from insomnia and some have even worse sleeping patterns that you and me. Finally, like you, I found that sleeping pills are not a long term solution to insomnia.
High salt intake has been linked to high blood pressure which can help keep you awake. I was wondering if you monitor your blood pressure and it has come down since you went on a low salt diet?
Also you indicate you have better sleep of 3 hours with low salt. I guess everyone is different, but I find when I get 3 hours I have difficulty getting through the day – I feel like a zombie. I need at least 4 hours and preferably 5 to be able to operate effectively through the day. So you can get through the day OK on 3 hours?
Someone else on this website recently suggested taking raw honey before bedtime to help with sleep; he indicated he got up to 90 minutes of extra sleep since he started taking raw honey and correctly pointed out that there are a number of articles on the web that extoll the benefit of raw honey for getting good sleep. I have taken raw honey for 5 nights and so far have not found any change in my sleep pattern – I have my good nights and my bad nights. I will give it a little more time to see if it has a positive effect. As with low salt, some things work for some people and some do not. Please let the website know if low salt continues to help with your sleep over the next couple of weeks. Thanks.
Gegatso I am now trying active raw Manuka honey; I take a tablespoon 1/2 hour before I go to bed. Last night I tried it for the first time and I got about 5 1/2 hours sleep which is good for me (I woke up during the night to go to the bathroom but like you I was able to get back to sleep). The night before however, I got almost 6 hours sleep without the honey, but the night before that only 3 and 1/2 hours. You indicated it gave you up to 90 minutes additional sleep, so based on one night I don't see that happening but I will keep taking it for a while and see what happens. It is not cheap – about $25 for a small bottle at Whole Foods, but if it helps my sleep it is worth it. It also has anitbiotic power and helps with digestion. If you have anything else to add about your experience with raw honey please let us know.
I tried acupuncture for 8 sessions but it didn't do anything for my sleep; I tried hypnosis for 5 sessions but it also didn't help. However, some people claim it has helped them. I think though that you need to keep a sleep log which indicates how much you slept (best guess) each night to see if treatments actually help increase your sleep. That way you can make a before and after comparison. Also I never heard of the Chinese herb you mentioned to help with sleep, but then I'm not into Chinese herbal medicine. If you find it really helps after using it for a while, please post on this forum. Thanks.
Mau, Martin gives you good advice. I would add two things that may help you. First, do enough exercise during the day to tire yourself out, so when you go to bed you will fall asleep quickly and won't dwell on anxiety about sleeping. Don't go to bed until you start feeling tired. Also push anxiety thoughts out of your mind by thinking about other things. For example you can make mental lists of things or think about vacations you have taken, childhood friends, etc. In other words think about non-controversial things and hopefully you will drift off to sleep. I use these techniques, and while I still have insomnia problems to an extent, I think these techniques have enabled me to get more sleep.
I go to sleep at about 12:30. I usually wake up anywhere from 3 to 4 hours later to go to the bathroom. Then the question is can I get back to sleep. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If I could figure out why sometimes I can't get back to sleep I might be able to solve my insomnia problem, but I haven't come up with a solution. By the way I don't drink liquids within 4 hours of bedtime and I usually urinate about 10-15 minutes before I go to bed. I think this helps control nighttime urination, but not totally.
For the last few days I have been getting 4 to 4 1/2 hours sleep. Better than 2 or 3 hours, but I really would like to average at least 5 hours a night. Here in NYC the weather has been hot and humid, which is not the greatest weather for sleeping; I think it will cool down somewhat by Friday. One good thing is that the days are getting a little shorter now, so gradually it will stay darker more and more in the morning, which helps sleep. It will take a while to be significant, but at least we are moving in the right direction. I was talking to a woman in the dentist's office who told me she has a sleep problem, and although some nights she can get 6 hours sleep, there are occasionally nights when she can't sleep at all! She attributes her sleep problem in part to menopause (e.g., hot flashes at night), although that is not the whole of it. I've noticed other people on this website who say sometimes they can't sleep at all at night, so at least we can get some sleep every night – even 3 hours is better than zero hours sleep. So although I get depressed at times if I have 2 or 3 bad nights in a row, like you I try to keep in mind that there will also be good sleep nights and there are some people who have it even worse than I do in terms of sleeping problems. I wish a normal sleep pattern would return permanently but I do what I can and try to adjust.
