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I never get 7 1/2 hours; my sleep range is from 3 to 6 hours, so it is narrower than yours. Last night I got at least 3 1/2 to 3 3/4 hours sleep. I may have gone back to sleep a second time and got another 30 or 40 minutes sleep, but I'm not sure. I may just have been very quiet and still or I may actually have fallen asleep. It may seem odd but sometimes I just can't be sure. Don't know if you have this type of problem.
It sounds like your bad sleep nights can be brought about by stress or sometimes physical ailments. As far as I know my sleep problems aren't caused by these factors; I have yet to pin down the cause. Like you I just have to keep hoping for the “good sleep” nights.
Most of the time I don't nap during the day. If I do nap it is normally for a short period, like 10 to 20 minutes. I try not to nap after 3:30 PM, as it starts getting closer to my sleep time (12:30 AM) after that, and I don't want my nighttime sleep disrupted. Some sleep therapists say it is best not to sleep at all during the day, while others say a short nap in the early afternoon is OK. Even to take a short nap I find I must tire myself by walking first. I am prone to try to nap when I have had a bad night sleepwise but I don't always succeed in getting a short nap. Each person is different, but if I slept from 2:30 to 4PM like you did,I would have difficulty getting a good sleep that night.
Last night I slept about 3 1/2 hours while the night before I slept about 5 1/4 hours. When I slept 5 1/4 hours I was able to fall back asleep twice after urinating, while when I slept 3 1/2 hours I couldn't fall back to sleep at all. I don't know why the difference between the two nights. The only thing I seem to have noticed is that the longer I sleep without urinating, the less likely I am able to get back to sleep. It's almost as if the body is saying “you slept enough no more sleep for you tonight”. Of course I don't think 3 1/2 hours is enough sleep. There have been exceptions to this rule, but it seems to be a general trend with me. I don't know if you have had similar experiences.
No I don't get headaches after bad sleep nights; I just feel exhausted and depressed. It is hard to figure out why some nights you just can't get much sleep and others you can. I keep looking for factors that may have led to a bad sleep night but I can never really find the answer. I just keep in mind that there will be some good sleep nights.
You are right that you need to look forward to going to bed; if you view it as a battlefield to get sleep you are going to have trouble sleeping. I try to get tired enough that when it is the time for me to go to bed, I am more than ready to go to sleep. Using a mantra can be helpful in falling back to sleep. In fact, any “rote” device that helps clear other “stuff” out of your mind can help you drift off to sleep. I sometimes try to make mental “lists” of various things for example (although I must admit it only works sometimes). Hope you continue getting a decent amount of sleep most nights.
Congratulations on getting about 6 hours sleep a night; sounds like you haven't had any 2 or 3 hour nights in a week. You seem to attribute this to a different bed, tiring yourself out more during the day and trying to think less about your sleeping problem. In the last few days I have been getting about 4 to 5 hours sleep, although I had a bad 3 1/4 hour sleep night about 4 days ago. Like me,
a key problem for you has been waking during the night and not being able to get back to sleep. Since you have been getting 6 hours on a regular basis have you found a new technique to get back to sleep or does getting back to sleep just seem to come naturally now?
Actually, I have only had insomnia for about a year, although I was never a great sleeper ( never got 7 to 8 hours as an adult). Looking into sleep apnea was only a suggestion, since even if you are diagnosed with it, you would have to be able to tolerate CPAP. Even if you have apnea and can use CPAP, although the quality of your sleep may improve, there is no guarantee that your total sleep time will increase. If you snore a lot and engage in heavy breathing while asleep, you may have sleep apnea. As I indicated before, I use sleep apnea pills made by a company that uses herbs for cures, but I really don't know how much the pills help my sleep. In any event, in the last week I have slept 4 to 6 hours every night. If that became my norm, I would say I have made much progress in controlling my insomnia. However, I have had good “sleep streaks” before and then all of a sudden I go back to several days of 3 to 4 hours. I have no idea why this happens. Again the key factor is can I get back to sleep after getting up to urinate or do I stay awake. Hope your herbal medication works and you have some good “sleep streaks”.
I also had a good night last night – I got between 5 1/2 and 6 hours sleep. These are the type of nights that keep me going, since I know I will probably have some not so good sleep nights in the future. You mention that you got an e-mail from Martin that indicates your waking up may be due to abnormal breathing. He may be talking about sleep apnea, which I have been diagnosed with. With sleep apnea you may actually wake up and fall back to sleep a number of times during the night without realizing it; in theory it could also finally cause you to just wake up and not get back to sleep. However, I have a friend who has bad sleep apnea who could not tolerate the CPAP device that is used to treat it and he sleeps 7 hours a night. I also could not tolerate the CPAP device (a mask connected by a tube to a machine that helps “normalize” your breathing while asleep), although I take a “Sleep Apnea Relief” capsule every night put out by one of those internet companies that specializes in herbal remedies. The man who concocted the capsule claims he had been using CPAP but disliked it, and now doesn't need it with the capsule. I don't know if it really helps me, but I take it every night. So you may want to be tested for sleep apnea, although that involves an overnight stay at a facility where you will be connected to a whole bunch of wires. Then if you have sleep apnea you will have to decide if you can tolerate the CPAP device. So sleep apnea may or may not cause you to wake up and stay awake if you have it. Being overweight and drinking alcohol a lot are two possible causes of sleep apnea, but there can be other reasons. Clearly there are other factors that can cause you to wake up during the night. I wake up because I need to urinate in my opinion. The key factor is whether or not I can then fall back to sleep; on good nights I can on bad nights I can't. Why this is so is the million dollar question with regard to my sleep insomnia; I don't know what the answer is. So you may or may not want to look into sleep apnea, but be aware of the limitations I mention above. If you have it and can tolerate the CPAP device it may improve your sleep but there is no guarantee of that.
I think that exercise late in the afternoon and early evening is most likely to help with sleep, particularly a walk at a slow pace (but don't walk within at least 2 hours of bedtime). I try to do 2 or 3 walks a day. However, walking a lot is no absolute guarantee of a good night's sleep; one time I really walked all over the place and I thought I would get a great night's sleep. However, I only got about 2 1/2 hours sleep. So there is not one factor that controls the amount of sleep you get. The various things you do to sleep better can help but they all have limitations. Also my partner snores, so we have to sleep separately. If you have sleep problems you just can't have someone snoring next to you. A number of couples sleep apart, so this is not unusual. However, unless you have insomnia it is difficult to understand what a person with insomnia is going through. Insomnia just drains the strength out of you and can make you feel depressed. If you have a few bad sleep nights in a row you feel like a zombie, just doing the minimum to get through the day. Since I have the same problem as you I can understand what you are going through. I always hope for a “good sleep night” that will restore my mental and physical strength; the “good sleep nights” keep me going and help make up for the “bad sleep nights”, but only to a limited extent. Some people take the attitude that if you have insomnia you must be doing something wrong to cause it. I have spent so much time trying to find ways to improve my sleep over the last year that I find that attitude annoying. I'm open to trying anything halfway reasonable to help with my insomnia, but I don't see where I am the cause of my own insomnia. Anyway, this forum is helpful in that we can vent about our sleep problem with people who really understand the problem. I wish more people would join these discussions; that is how we can learn more about what works and what doesn't work for insomnia.
Sorry the sleep restriction didn't work for you, as I found it helpful and I am usually able to fall asleep in 5 to 10 minutes (I go to bed around 12:30 and get up around 6:30). The problem I continue to have is on “bad nights” I wake up usually after 3 to 3 1/2 hours sleep and can't get back to sleep. CBT recommends that you get up and do something if you can't get back to sleep within 20-30 minutes and then go back to sleep later. However, I have found it doesn't make any difference if I get up and do something or just lie in my bed. Either way on “bad nights” I get 3 to 3 1/2 hours sleep. On “good nights” I can get back to sleep fairly quickly, and wind up with anywhere from 4 to 6 hours sleep. I've been told this is because after 2 or 3 “bad nights” my “sleep deficit” builds up enough that I can fall back to sleep and get 4 to 6 hours. So it is almost like some type of internal body clock which I can't do much about. There have been occasions when I have gotten 2,3 or even 4 nights in a row of 4-6 hours sleep, but sooner or later I go back to 3 to 3 1/2 hours. Does anyone else have this type of sleep pattern? Has anyone else found a good strategy for getting back to sleep if you wake up during the night? By the way, I had a cotisol level test and found it was in a normal range, so that is not my problem. Maybe you will find otherwise Georgina2.
Glad you are making progress. I think going to bed later (e.g., when you are tired) and exercising more are two of the more helpful things you are doing. I also find a slow stroll in the early evening helpful to tire and relax me. However, make sure the stroll ends at least 2 hours before bedtime and note this is not a “fast” walk. I have had insomnia about a year and I range from a low of 3 hours sleep to a high of 6 hours sleep. Hopefully your 2 hour nights will become less and less frequent, as mine did over time. I found functioning on 2 hours to be awful; 3 hours minimum is better but not by a lot. I am hoping my worst nights will eventually become about 4 hours (which is what I got last night). There doesn't seem to be any quick solution to insomnia so you have to be prepared to “tough it out” for awhile and not giveup. Sometimes when I get several nights of little sleep I get somewhat depressed, but I keep in mind that when my “sleep deficit” builds up enough I will get a night of 5 to 6 hours sleep. So my advice is be prepared for temporary setbacks but stay on the course you have chartered.
I also tried Yan's sleep tracks and they didn't help with my sleep. I tried melatonin once but it did nothing for me (1.5 mg). I don't really have an anxiety problem, except maybe for the fear that poor sleep with ruin my health and shorten my life span; but that is not what causes my sleep problem. If you have an anxiety problem then I guess you would need the help of a psychotherapist to find the underlying cause. What is the “amino acid treatment” that you say helped your sleep a little?
JArgo and Dawne, you both seem to have problems turning off the thoughts and getting to sleep. I seem to be able to turn off the thoughts and fall asleep fairly quickly initially, although getting back to sleep after waking up during the night is often a problem. I try to work myself into such a state of tiredness before going to bed that I can fall asleep quickly, so the key for me is to go to bed at a regular time and being tired when I hit the bed. If you are not tired you will likely just lie there in bed. I don't know if either of you have medical or psychological issues that impact your sleep. The one problem I have is that sometimes when I wake up during the night I find that one or both nostrils are stuffed up; it is not easy in the middle of the night to “unstuff” them, so that is one reason I have difficulty getting back to sleep (I have a humidifier and rub Vicks Vaporub on my chest before going to bed which helps somewhat). JArgo you indicated that after 5 years the Ambien stopped working, even though you only used it once a week. Don't know how long you have used it Dawne. I've only used it (6.25 mg) about 3 times a month to get 2-3 hours of additional sleep when I wake up during the night for about 9 months. While the tolerance point varies for each individual with sleeping medication at some point Ambien tends to lose effectiveness; I guess you can only hope it will last for several years, even when used sparingly, based on JArgo's experience. I'm trying Yoga now, two classes a week, but so far can't say it has had much effect – but too early to say. Hope you guys find something to help you.
So you use Ambien like I do, about 3 times a month. I agree that using it like that probably doesn't make you dependent, although I would like to not use it at all. However, when it looks like a real “bad night” sleepwise I take it to get 2-3 hours of extra sleep. I tried sleeptracks but it didn't really do anything for me. I was never a great sleeper but my insomnia problem really manifested itself about 10 months ago while you have had to deal with it for 20 years. So you have had more experience with it than I have. Cognitive behavioral therapy involves keeping set times to go to bed and wake up, using the bed only for sleep (and sex), sleeping only within the “sleep period”, good “sleep hygiene” in general, getting up and doing something if you wake up during the night and can't sleep that tires you, etc. I think it helped me go to sleep quickly, but I have yet to find an activity in the middle of the night that tires me enough that I can get back to sleep when I wake up in the middle of the night. Please let us know if any of your holistic supplements really work (e.g., really increase your sleep time).
Thanks for sharing. How often do you take the Ambien? Sounds like several times a week. I take 6.25 mg if I can't get back to sleep and get 2 to 3 hours additional sleep. However, I limit use to 3 or 4 times a month since I don't want to be too dependent on the pill.Some nights, like last night (I only got 3 hours sleep) I don't use it even though I would really like the additional sleep. Some other nights I get 4 to 5 hours sleep on my own and I'm OK. Depending on how frequently you take the Ambien you may be dependent on it to an extent, so that you have difficulty sleeping without it. So you would need to gradually ease off the Ambien, but that is easier said than done. I would like to not use the Ambien at all, but some nights I feel I really need it to get more than 2-3 hours sleep. Maybe someone who has been able to get off sleeping pills who reads this may be able to advise you how they did it. Have you tried cognitive behavioral therapy? It helped me somewhat but I still have an insomnia problem.
I don't have nights with no sleep; my “bad nights” are usually 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours. Unlike you, my problem is not falling asleep but trying to get back to sleep when I wake up in the middle of the night. You appear to exercise a lot and practice good “sleep hygiene”. i assume you keep regular sleep hours and sleep only within those hours in a dark cool room. Also that you don't live with someone who is difficult to sleep with (snoring a lot and moving a lot in bed during sleep). You might look into foods that help sleep. I snack on plain Greek yogurt, dried tart cherries, kiwi fruit and almonds 1 to 2 hours before going to bed. How much this helps me I don't know, but I normally fall asleep within 5 to 10 minutes. You say “thoughts” keep you awake. You need to try to think of things that divert your mind, like lists of things or pleasant experiences from childhood, such as vacations, different friends you had, different grades you were in, etc. This assumes of course, that you had a relatively pleasant childhood. The key thing is to think of mundane, pleasant things that move you way from anxiety creating thoughts that keep you awake. Like you I keep searching for different things to try to help with sleep. The last few nights I've tried something called Badger Sleep Balm, which I got at Whole Foods for $10. It smells of lavender and bergamot, which is supposed to help relax you and help you sleep. You rub it on your face right before going to bed. It is probably a waste of money but I'm desperate. One other thing is that Merck is supposed to release a sleeping pill called suvorexant sometime this year, which unlike other sleeping pills works as an orexin receptor antagonist. So it may provide some relief if you have already tried sleeping pills, but the big question is how long is it effective; I don't know the answer to that question. I hope this helps you, because nights when you can't sleep at all are awful.
