Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Like many of us, you have tried a lot of things and nothing seems to really work. How much sleep have you actually been getting? For example, I only got 2 1/2 hours last night, but got 5 hours and 4 1/2 hours the two previous nights. So my sleep is eratic; I have nights when I get little sleep, which creates a “sleep deficit” so that I then get nights with 4 to 5 hours sleep. Is your sleep pattern like that, or is it different? You indicate you run a lot, so I am surprised you have such trouble sleeping, since people who are athletic are supposed to have less problems with insomnia. I try to walk a lot. Right now I am trying yoga to help with sleep, but it is too early to see if it really helps.
HI phil. Were you on sleep medication that has suddenly stopped working? If that is the case you may have experienced “rebound insomnia” which caused you to not sleep at all. I know it is awful to try to get through the day with no sleep. Sleep apnea can disturb your sleep (you are in effect constantly waking up briefly without realizing it), although it may or may not affect total sleep hours. I know two people who have apnea and don't use cpap and they get plenty of sleep. Another person I know uses cpap and sleeps OK. If I could tolerate cpap I would use it for my apnea, but I find it to be too uncomfortable. I use a herbal blend put out by Nature's Rite called “Sleep Apnea Relief”; it was developed by a former cpap user. I take one capsule a night but I really don't know if it helps control the apnea. Also losing weight if you are overweight and cutting back on alcohol may help control apnea to an extent. I'm not familiar with insomnia caused by anxiety/terror attacks; if that is your problem you probably should consult a specialist.
Hi welcome! It would help if you could give some more detail about your insomnia problem. For example, I don't have a problem falling asleep, but getting back to sleep when I wake up during the night. So is your problem falling asleep, getting back to sleep, or both? Have you tried any sleeping pills or other strategies to help your sleep? What has your experience been? People may be able to give you feedback and suggestions after they have a better understanding of your sleep problem and how you have tried to deal with it.
Hi guys. Glad you got 5 hours sleep Michael without meds; that's about what I got last night. The important thing about a sleep log is your best guess as to your total sleep time for the night; don't worry too much about the exact hours you sleep. That way if you try something new, like acupuncture, increased exercise, etc. you have a way of determining if your sleep has actually been increasing. You need to look at your sleep situation over weeks, not just a few days in order to determine trends.
The interesting thing about watching TV and falling asleep is that it is generally thought that the light from watching TV at night disrupts your melatonin cycle and it will disrupt your sleep later at night if you doze off in front of the TV set. Yet the TV also has a “hypnotic effect” that can put you to sleep for awhile. I've fallen asleep for 20-30 minutes in front of the TV during the early afternoon occasionally; I don't worry about that as much as “evening TV sleep” as I think it is less likely to cause sleep problems at night. Sleep therapists are divided on the subject of early afternoon naps. Some think brief early afternoon naps are OK, while others say don't nap during the day at all. I don't try to nap during the afternoon as a general policy but if it happens occasionally I don't get upset about it.
Take care
Hi guys. Beer and wine can have a sedative effect but it also leads to broken sleep in many people. Also,if you go to the bathroom a lot at night alcohol will worsen that problem. Maybe 4-5 beers a day works as a sleep aide for some, but what is the long term effect of drinking like that on the liver? I've thought of drinking a glass or two of wine for those nights when I wake up and can't get back to sleep, but so far I've stayed away from that solution.
One thing I do everyday is keep a daily sleep log, so I can go back and see how much I sleep over the past weeks/months. So if you try something like acupuncture you can see if your sleep has actually been increased by the treatment. People often report that the acupuncture makes them feel better, which is good, but you really need something objective like a sleep log to see if your sleep has really improved over the course of treatment.
Yesterday I walked a lot and was able to get a little over 5 hours sleep last night as opposed to a little over 3 hours the night before. Since I'm retired I have time to walk a lot. I'm also going to a free exercise class at the local library on Tuesday for an hour; I will follow that up with a long walk. I've also started going to a free “chair yoga” class. What I do is not strenuous but does help to tire me out. I read somewhere that athletes are less prone to insomnia, because in the course of their job they automatically exercise a lot. I am no athlete but I do think a lot of exercise helps with sleep.
By the time evening rolls around I often feel sleepy, and I have to be careful not to fall asleep before my regular sleep time. Even a 20-30 minute nap in the early evening can be a disaster for sleep later that night. That is another reason I walk between 9 and 10 in the evening; it not only gives me more exercise to tire myself out but it helps to keep me awake in the evening before my sleep time (which is 12:40).
Anyway I wish you guys good luck with your sleep. Michael I know you are going without a sleep med now, so you may have a rough night or two without the med but before long your “natural” sleep ability should kick in and you should get some type of natural sleep.
Phil – When I first developed insomnia I tried an OTC sleeping pill called Unisom. I didn't take it everyday but probably took it about 14 times over a month and a half. At first it worked and gave me 4-6 hours of sleep but the effectiveness declined quickly so that the last time I took it I got only 1and 1/2 hours of sleep. Note that OTC sleeping pills are glorified antihistamines which will leave you groggy the next day. So I stopped taking it. Others may have had better experiences, but that is my experience.
With regard to sleep apnea you have to be tested overnight to see if you have it. If you snore a lot and make all kinds of noises when you sleep that is a sign that you may have it. I have it, but like many people I can't tolerate the standard remedy, the CPAP machine. I do take a “Sleep Apnea Relief” pill everynight put out by Nature's Rite. It is a combination of herbs that may help relieve the sleep apnea condition somewhat; I don't know if it really works but I take it anyway.
Michael -my high blood pressure is under control with the meds so that's why I can exercise – note my main exercise is walking. Hope the acupuncture helps you. I took 8 sessions and it did nothing for me, but others have claimed it helped them. After getting 4-5 hours sleep for 7 of the last 8 nights, last night I only got 3 hours. Maybe it has something to do with the Daylight Savings Time Change in the US, where the clocks are moved ahead one hour; that can interfere with your “sleep rhythm” until you adjust to it.
Sounds like you have really done a lot to deal with your insomnia. When I only get 3 to 3 1/2 hours sleep I also tend to wake up between 3 and 4 like you and can't get back to sleep (last night however I got 4 1/2 hours). However, I get that on my own and without a pill. If I'm able to fall back asleep that happens fairly quickly; if I'm still awake after 20 minutes that usually means I'm not getting back to sleep. CBT suggest that if you can't get back to sleep quickly you get up and do something and then go back to bed when you are tired. That sounds good but I find I usually can't get back to sleep when I get up and do something; don't know if you have tried any activity to get back to sleep when you wake up.
I also take blood pressure medications (4 to be exact). My blood pressure is now under control but I have had to cut back drastically on one of them, Metoprolol, which has been linked to insomnia.
One other thimg that may help you is not to drink liquids within 3 hours of bedtime; also avoid salad greens in the same time period as they contain a lot of moisture which will increase your need to go to the bathroom.
With regard to pills, I think a new sleeping pill called suvorexant,developed by Merck, that works on orexin receptors, may become available this year. Since it works differently from other sleeping pills, there is some enthusiasm about it, although some test subjects complained of daytime drowsiness as a side effect. The key question is how long does it stay effective. If it only works for several weeks or months then it only gives you a temporary respite. I don't know the answer to that question.
Hope you are able to find some relief. I wish more people would discuss their experiences with insomnia on the website, as that is how we can learn from each other. Thanks for sharing.
I take a 6.25 mg Ambien (Zolpidem) about 2-4 times a month. I use it only when my initial sleep period is too short (like say 2 hours) and I want to add another 2 -3 hours to it (and I can't get back to sleep on my own). I generally can fall asleep on my own fairly quickly. I usually wake up to go to the bathroom; some nights I can get back to sleep, other nights I can't. Last night I got 5 hours on my own; but the night before I got only 1 1/2 hours sleep on my own, so I took an Ambien and got another 2 -2 1/2 hours sleep. I hadn't used an Ambien for about a week and a half before then, so I try to use it sparingly. Eventually it will lose its effect even though I don't use it that much; I've used it for about 6 months in the manner I describe above.
I've tried acupuncture, hypnosis, “sleep tracks” and the herbal/melatonin OTC pill “Midnight”; nothing worked, although it could help you. I think CBT was partially helpful and I think a lot of walking helps too. I walk during the afternoon and also for about 45 minutes around 2 hours before I go to bed (slow walk not fast).
I also slowly pace the floor (and alternate with deep breathing)in a dark room for about 20 – 30 minutes before entering the bed. I know the common wisdom is no exercise activity at night, but the emphasis here is on slow walking to calm you down and tire you out. As I indicated I fall asleep quickly, so it may sound strange but it works for me. Also be sure to empty your bladder shortly before retiring even if you don't feel a great need to do so – you will stay asleep longer. Use a humidifier at night if you have a problem with stuffiness. Finally I snack on the following(supposedly) sleep inducing foods within 2 hours of bedtime; plain Greek yogurt, almonds, kiwi fruit and dried tart cherries.
So I generally get anywhere from 3 to 5 1/2 hours sleep most nights the last few months (maybe the colder weather helps also). I still consider myself an insomniac, since my sleep in not adequate and I have to go great length to get the sleep I do get. Sleeping pills can help but they lose effectiveness over time, so people keep switching to different types of pills, until one day there are no more pills that work. No pills is the best, but that's easier said than done when you are desperate for sleep and nothing seems to work.
It seems you have a problem worse than mine, as I don't have nights with no sleep, just inadequate sleep. My guess though, is that you probably make up for sleepless nights by getting adequate sleep on other nights as your “sleep deficit” builds up. Last night I got 3 1/4 hours sleep, which is typical for me (I usually get 3 to 4 hours sleep). Sure continual lack of adequate sleep causes depression at times, as I don't see any solution to my problem, which is more recent than yours. I've tried a lot of things, but with only limited effect. However, I do get out and walk a lot and lately I have been attending an exercise class and a “chair yoga” class. Getting out helps, at least psychologically.
I agree that attitude and beliefs about sleep are important, but, as you also point out, it is easier said than done when it comes to “negative attitudes”. In any event, I hope your CBT course with Martin works out for you.
Thanks for the information about the Indian head massage. However, I don't have the soreness in my head that you mention the massage helps, so I don't know how much it would help me. I think you are helped by your positive attitude; I am not as positive a person and my insomnia depresses me at times.
I must continue to resolve to “fight on” against the insomnia although there are times when I just want to give up. Last night I took a low dose Ambien for the first time in two weeks after waking up after 3 hours sleep and not being able to get back to sleep. I was able to get 3 hours additional sleep for a total of 6 hours, which is good for me. I feel good today with the 6 hours sleep, but I must be careful not to use the Ambien again for awhile since I don't want to become dependent. I would like to dispense with it totally if I could but I'm not there yet. The problem I have with CBT is that, while I can get to sleep, when I wake up in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep, getting up and doing something (as CBT prescribes) and then going back to bed, doesn't seem to work with me. I just stay awake. Also the sleep restriction is hard to fully adhere to, particularly with getting up in the morning. So try CBT if you want but my own experience is that it is only somewhat helpful. Maybe it will help you more.
Thanks again for sharing; I wish more people would do so as we learn from each other.
Thank you for sharing your experiences with insomnia. I'm retired and it is a big problem for me, so I don't know how you can work and raise two kids with it. Like you, the insomnia wears me out and I have a minimal social life I've tried acupuncture and sleep tracks and found they didn't have much effect with regard to insomnia. I exercise a lot, which I think helps to an extent, and find I can fall asleep quickly but wake up after 3 to 4 hours and can't get back to sleep. I try to limit medication, but use a low dose ambien 2-4 times a month to get an additional 2 to 3 hours of sleep when I can't fall back to sleep. I go to sleep about 12:40 and get up about 6:30 so I keep regular sleep hours and I think I practice good sleep hygiene. I should probably stay in bed a shorter time but I find it hard enough to get up at 6:30. I would like to hear more about the Indian head massage, which you indicate really helps you.
How long have you been using Trazadone? I'm curious because a doctor I know recommended it, but I'm wary of pills. If you sleep 10 hours it doesn't sound like it has lost effect (at least not yet). Are you experiencing any side effects from the Trazadone?
I tried 5 sessions with a hypnotherapist but it didn't help my insomnia. The hypnotherapist claimed to have had success in treating people for insomnia, but told me that after 5 sessions if her therapy wan't causing any change in my insomnia then I was probably wasting my money if I attended additonal sessions.
I'm not clear as to what you are doing now. Are you still using Ambien, and if so what dosage. Also you indicate when you went to the hospital you were told stomach and other issues were causing your insomnia. Could you provide a little more detail on this. I have had insomnia for about a half year and still don't know the cause for sure. I use a low dose Ambien once or twice a week when I wake up and can't get back to sleep and it gives me between 2 to 3 hours additional sleep added on to the sleep I had before I woke up in the night. I would prefer to not use it at all but there are times I need to do something the next day where I don't want to be a zombie or I just crave the additional sleep time. So I'm curious at to what your current status is with regard to taking Ambien and the causes of your insomnia.
The problem I have with taking a product with a large dose of melatonin nightly is that your body may become dependent on it after awhile and also may develop a tolerance for it. I don't know for sure if this is as true with melatonin as it is with prescription sleeping pills. So in the short term if it works for you there shouldn't be a problem, but if you take it for say a year or more then some of the above mentioned problems may arise. Also I don't know about potential side effects – if there are any. So I approach these melatonin-herb concoctions with caution. It is obvious that a low melatonin dose doesn't work for me; but if I get desperate enough I may take a chance and do what you have done. Right now I'm going to see if the hypnotherapist can do anything for me. Friday night I got 6-6 1/2 hours sleep which is very good for me but last night I got 3 12 – 4 hours sleep which is more typical for me. I would be interested in finding out the experience of others with melatonin or melatonin/herb concoctions.
