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Yes I stick with the sleep window and the 30/30 rule, although sometimes it might be 45 minutes because I’m not watching the clock. I always read to wind down before going to bed, usually about an hour. And if I have to get up, that’s what I do as well. A lot of times I’m so tired when I get up that I’m only up 15-20 minutes before going back to bed.
My sleep was all over the place – sometimes 6 hours, sometimes 2, sometimes none. I was taking Ambien but would sometimes wait to see if I could sleep first. But usually it wasn’t until 2 or 3 that I would finally give up and take the pill. But my sleep wasn’t that great with the Ambien either. Sometimes it was good but other times I’d wake up all groggy and not feeling like I slept well.
This is actually my second time doing CBT-I with Martin. I did the 8 week course in Jan and Feb but lost faith in it because I was still having a couple bad nights a week. Now I understand what I did wrong but at the time I didn’t. So I got off the program and took a long detour for a couple months, only to get worse and worse. When I got back onto the program it only took a couple days to start getting better. I did the sleep window of 6.5 hours from 12 to 6:30 and the getting up when I couldn’t sleep. That’s all.
I started taking Effexor for the anxiety the same time I started the program. It usually takes 2 to 3 weeks to kick in. Since I was getting good results within the first week I starting feeling a lot better soon. I think the program helped me the most but my husband swears it’s the medication. We always have this disagreement!
My regular counselor also didn’t understand it and suggested the warm bath and milk….. Most people don’t understand it. Doctors want to give you pills and counselors think you just need to work on your anxiety. But CBT-I is the answer.
Hi Sydonia,
I was a total mess a little over three weeks ago having high anxiety, depression and panic attacks. I’ve had my insomnia since October. I had to go to the emergency room in March because I was completely falling apart feeling so crazy from the sleep deprivation and super depressed because I felt like the insomnia was taking my life away from me. I was almost suicidal.
I hired Martin 3 weeks ago and it’s amazing the difference. I’m sleeping 6 to 6.5 hours per night on average and the anxiety has gone way, way down. Of course for some people, the improvement doesn’t come as fast, but CBT-I definitely works. It’s too bad that there isn’t more awareness of CBT-I. Even a lot of sleep doctors don’t know about it. So people like you (and us on the forum) suffer because we didn’t know where to turn for answers and feel hopeless. But it’s not hopeless. CBT-I works, but it’s not easy so its best to hire a coach like Martin to get you through this.
Hi Julie,
I’ve had the same issue as you. I went through the paid course back in Jan-Feb and the whole 8 weeks I averaged 5 good nights and 2 bad nights a week. Like you, I either fell asleep right away and slept through the night or was up all night. I also was not good at practicing SC (getting up) so the bad nights were always really bad with me being awake half the night or the entire night. I got discouraged, feeling like I had plateaued and that it was never going to get better. So I took a big detour for a couple months and unfortunately got really bad again. So 3 & 1/2 weeks ago I hired Martin again, got on the program and started getting better again. I’m much better now, averaging 6 to 6.5 hours per night and this time it seems like the bad nights are disappearing for the most part. If I have to get up it’s usually only once so I don’t lose that much sleep.
Martin has a video where he talks about these “holdouts” or bad nights that are taking longer to go away. Click on the YouTube icon on the bottom of the page and it will take you to his videos. He says that you just need to persevere and that eventually they will go away.
I would recommend that you get back onto sleep restriction again and stick with it until these go away. I think that if you’ve just relaxed and are trying to just sleep like a “normal person” and like you used to, it won’t work. I saw this happen with another person on this forum. He relaxed too soon because he was having mostly good nights but then the bad nights came crashing back in again. Now he’s back on the program and doing better. We need to stick with the program until we are COMPLETELY HEALED. You also need to make sure you include doing the SC as well, because otherwise you’re continuing to train your body to associate the bad with wakefulness.
One thing about Sasha Stephens – she’s against sleep restriction (SR) but it’s worked miracles for me. She must have been contacted by people who had bad experiences with it, maybe restricting their sleep too much to just a few hours. Martin recommends to restrict it to no less than 5.5 hours. My sleep was all over the place before, but once I started SR my sleep just fell into place within the sleep window and it has been very good, concentrated sleep. The body seems to love structure, just like kids need it.
One other thing. You may want to talk to Mac, who is on the “Support Group for those doing SR” thread. Like you, he tried many different things, but CBT-I is the only thing that has worked for him. Also, check out Sasha Stephen’s book, The Effortless Sleep Method. She had insomnia for 10 years like you (or was it 15), trying all different things but eventually beating it with a similar behavioral approach.
Hi Mr. Artichoke. I was a total mess a little over three weeks ago having high anxiety, depression and panic attacks. I’ve had my insomnia since October. I had to go to the emergency room in March because I was completely falling apart feeling so crazy from the sleep deprivation and super depressed because I felt like the insomnia was taking my life away from me. I was almost suicidal.
I hired Martin 3 weeks ago and it’s amazing the difference. I’m sleeping 6 to 6.5 hours per night on average and the anxiety has gone way, way down. Of course for some people, the improvement doesn’t come as fast, but CBT-I definitely works. Martin has helped people like you who have had insomnia for many years. It’s too bad that there isn’t more awareness of CBT-I. Even a lot of sleep doctors don’t know about it. So people like you (and us on the forum) suffer because we didn’t know where to turn for answers and felt hopeless. But it’s not hopeless. CBT-I works, but it’s not easy so its best to hire a coach like Martin to get you through this.
Hi John. CBT-I works. I was a total mess a little over three weeks ago having high anxiety, depression and panic attacks. I’ve had my insomnia since October. I had to go to the emergency room in March because I was completely falling apart feeling so crazy from the sleep deprivation and super depressed because I felt like the insomnia was taking my life away from me. I was almost suicidal.
I hired Martin 3 weeks ago and it’s amazing the difference. I’m sleeping 6 to 6.5 hours per night on average and the anxiety has gone way, way down. Of course for some people, the improvement doesn’t come as fast, but CBT-I definitely works. It’s too bad that there isn’t more awareness of CBT-I. Even a lot of sleep doctors don’t know about it. So people like you (and us on the forum) suffered because we don’t know where to turn for answers and felt hopeless. But it’s not hopeless. CBT-I works, but like Steve said, it’s not easy so its best to hire a coach like Martin to get you through this.
Sorry it’s taking so long for you to get better. I guess I was just lucky, but I know that for some people it takes a lot longer. Even if it takes six weeks to get better, then it’s worth it instead of continuing to struggle with this with no end. We’re rooting for you, Steve, so hang in there!
If your sleep window was smaller, you WOULD get exhausted from SR and pass out. But that’s what’s needed for you right now – for the exhaustion to override your anxiety. That’s what worked for me. I was so exhausted staying awake until 12:00 that I was constantly nodding off. But then when I hit the pillow, I was out like a light.
You said you’re at end of 6 weeks, but I’m assuming it’s 6 days, Steve. That’s great that you slept through 3-5 which you said you usually don’t, so that’s an improvement! Concentrate on the good.
Since you seem to get by ok with less sleep than a lot of us (it doesn’t totally ruin your day), I wonder if there ever any exceptions where Martin recommends someone cut their sleep window to less to than 5 & 1/2 hours. You could email him and ask him. It just seems that maybe you would do better to match your sleep window closer to how long you’re actually sleeping and then maybe your sleep would become more concentrated within that period.
If the melatonin helps you I would take it, at least during this really rough period. Just my opinion.
Yes, please keep at it Steve. Six days is way to short to make any judgement about whether or not this will work for you. I think it can take a lot longer for some people depending on their level of anxiety and other factors. Remind yourself that you know how to sleep and you have slept well for many, many years, so your body knows how to do this. In fact, the instinct to sleep naturally is so much stronger than insomnia. It will win out eventually. But you need to keep giving yourself the structure of SR and SC and then eventually your sleep will begin to fall into place within those parameters. Just keep pushing your body like a robot to do what it needs to do right now and eventually your mind (the anxiety) will get out of the way.
If after a few weeks you see absolutely no improvement at all (which I doubt will happen), I would strongly recommend that you hire Martin. Then you can explain to him in detail what you’re doing it and he can help you fine tune what you’re doing to ensure your success.
