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Hi Slarus. I have a couple questions for you. First, how did you come up with your sleep window? Seven hours seems like an awful long length of time for someone who is just starting out on sleep reductions. My second question is, have you taken any courses on CBT-i, either with a counselor in person or someone on the internet?
You can do this Slarus. Stay with it and you will eventually improve as well.
What is your SW now Deb? Are you through with the paid course yet? I am on the 6th night of my first week but I was doing about 2 weeks of SR before I signed up with Martin. I was doing it on the Sleepio site but decided I needed a little more coaching than what they were giving me. That course is pretty much a self help course, although the other students will give you some support. The other students just aren’t experts like Martin is.
Go to the menu at the top of the page under “Resources” and click on it. You will see an item on the free sleep training course. I took it and I liked it.
Hi Slarus. My sleep deteriorated the first week I was on SR as well. I was getting in the 2 to 2.5 hours a night range. It improved slightly in Week 2 and again in Week 3, so it does get better. I know it is very hard at first. I have almost nodded off at my desk at work on many occasions I am so tired. I suffer dizzyness and vertigo at times from the lack of sleep as well. But then I remember that I was really tired from insomnia before I started SR too. By the third week of SR, my sleep consolidated so that I hardly have to get up for SC anymore. What happens is that if I wake up after 3:00 in the morning, I can usually get back to sleep. And if I wake up within an hour or 45 minutes to the time my alarm goes off, I will try to sleep but if I can’t within 30 minutes, I just get up for the day. So while I am not sleeping through my SW yet, at least I don’t have to get up out of bed (in most cases) if I can’t fall back asleep.
So just remember that from what I’ve read, for most people, their average time asleep goes down the first week of SR but then starts to improve. (One woman I read about took 6 weeks to start getting the same amount of sleep she got before she started SR.) Hang in there and feel free to come back here for support.
Glad to hear your getting some good sleep Mac. Yes, stay with the window for a lot longer time than you did last time and you should be okay. Yes, I have the anxiety over the insomnia and I probably won’t start losing it until I can string some good days together. I think I am getting there as I do get some good days, just not strung together yet. I now know I can sleep on my own without pills even if the duration isn’t where I want it to be yet. And that’s important.
Hi again finbot12. Yes, the alternating cycles are quite normal. We all have them. Sooner or later though (hopefully sooner) we break out of the pattern and start having more good nights than bad. Remember that CBT-i is not easy. If it was, nobody would have insomnia.
I also took Martin’s free course and I am near the end of my third week. However, I realized I had questions and was going to need some hand holding so I signed up for his paid course. I just started that last Friday evening. Yes, SR and SC are hard, no doubt about it. Last night I tried to read in bed as Martin suggested we could. It’s not as good as getting out of bed but sometimes I feel like a human yo-yo so I wanted to give it a try. I ended getting up out of bed because I couldn’t find a good position to read in. Also, a lot of people say that they get less sleep after starting SR than before. That goes for me as well. However, I have to remember that while I was getting 5 and 6 hours of sleep before I started SR, it was all fragmented sleep so wasn’t much good. I have read that it can take up to 6 weeks for some people to start getting more sleep while doing SR than they got before. And some people may have to do it for 6 to 8 months before they see some improvement in their sleep. Still, there really isn’t any other alternative. How long have you had insomnia? I have had mine since October of last year.
Hi finbop12. Oh yeah. I complain about this all the time. I am sleepy all day and then a couple hours before my SW of 11:45, I start to lose the sleepiness and don’t really feel it anymore at bedtime. This is a common complaint of people doing SR on here and other sites. Martin says it’s a classic conditioned response to the bed and tossing and turning in it. Where did you take your CBT-i lessons? Online or with someone in person?
As for what you can do to keep awake until your SW opens, here is a list Martin put up recently.
* Choose clothes that you can wear the next day
* Make your lunch
* Marinate or start to prepare food for dinner the following day and store it in the refrigerator
* Gather old bills and statements and shred them
* Organize collections: photos, old letters, wine, books, or other items
* Catch up on laundry or folding clothes
* Polish your shoes
* Iron or mend clothing
* Do some stretches
* Go for a walk
* Give yourself a pedicure, manicure, or facial
* Sweep or mop the kitchen floor while no one else is there to walk on it!
* Sort out junk mail
* Play solitaire (with cards)
* Call friends who live in other time zones
* Clean out the refrigerator
* Make a grocery shopping list for the week
* Create a detailed menu for dinners
* De-clutter your coffee table, dining room table, kitchen countertops or desk
* Create a list of activities that you’d enjoy doing on weekends and vacations
* Work on photo albums or scrapbooks
* Choose one or two drawers to clean out (in your desk, kitchen, bathroom)
* Organize collections of CDs or DVDs and choose some to donate or sell if you no longer enjoy themWow! I seem to be regressing. I have had two bad nights in a row. I know that is not unusual but I was doing rather well all things considered. On both nights I got to sleep within 15 minutes but then awoke about 15 after that. I find if I don’t fall asleep fast and stay asleep for awhile, my sleep for the night suffers, and it did. I did get 4 hours and 3 hours respectively, but it was a very fitful sleep and I ended up getting out of bed for good way earlier than my sleep window would have allowed me two. It’s disappointing because yesterday, i worked around the house very hard mowing the lawn and cleaning out and planting the garden. I was hoping my sleep drive would build but by bedtime, it seemed to have disappeared. I know some of you have mentioned how your SD disappears as well as bedtime comes on. I don’t know if I am still anxious about going to bed and that’s why I don’t feel the sleep drive or if it’s something else. All I know is that last week I had a 4.5 and a 5.0 hours sleep and I want them back.
Yeah, I get those microsleeps all the time and there is nothing I can do about it. A lot of times I will be sitting at my desk at work and the next thing I know, I pop awake. I’ve only been out for less than 10 seconds, if that, but they are just annoying. And yes they happen in the evening a lot also. I also sit on the floor although I have my back resting against the couch and the microsleeps will happen. I have often wondered how much of my sleep drive I have lost to them.
Hi delv – Yes, Martin says that eventually, the bad nights will become less and less until they go away as well. It just takes awhile to retrain your body. And I guess you are right that an unanticipated stress might make you regress. It’s how you handle it that tells if the insomnia comes back. After all, good sleepers have a bad night or two due to stress as well so it’s just not us poor sleepers.
I agree with you Borgesbi – I wish that a lot of people would stop saying they get better after 6 to 8 weeks because for most people, that’s not the correct time frame. I also am on Sleepio and their graduates are saying the same thing as you. They had insomnia for years and it is taking them a year or two in order to get good sleep and they STILL have a bad night or two every week. One woman I talk to is depressed because she has been in their program since this past January and while she has seen some improvement, she still has an SW of 5.5 hours, which is what she started at.
As for me? I just want to be able to get up and go to work and not have to fight to concentrate or fight to keep from falling asleep at my desk. I don’t know if that will ever happen but that is my goal.
Hi Pam. How did you do last night? Did you have to get up many times? FYI, I ran across Martin’s video where he said we don’t have to get out of bed for the 30 minutes if it’s too much for us. We can stay up and read in bed. It’s not as good as getting out of bed but better than staying in bed and tossing and turning. My sleep is back to being fragmented and so I awoke several times last night but fortunately, didn’t have to get up as I went back to sleep after awhile. Are you here in the US? What time zone are you in? I am in the eastern time zone in New York State.
I notice another way I’m regressing as well. I did get 4 hours of sleep last night but it was fragmented. I am not getting my sleep in one chunk like I did a lot of times last week. I felt better when I got my sleep in large blocks. Another thing I noticed is that when I did awake a couple times during the night, I didn’t know where I was and was confused. I probably awoke from a deep sleep. I hate to wake up from them as I think I get so little. I think I need to adjust my wind down routine as I am doing it for too long. I might be nodding off in the chair and not realizing it which is destroying my sleep drive. Hopefully, I can start sleeping longer as well as get the sleep in one chunk.
One other thing I noticed last night is that Martin said we could read in bed rather than get out of it if we couldn’t sleep. Reading in bed is not as good as getting out of it but better than staying in it and tossing and turning. So I put my book by my nightstand and was prepared to get up and read in bed. However, I didn’t have to. I woke up a couple times during the night but managed to get back to sleep before I would have had to get up out of bed.
Let me ask you something Borgesbi. Do you find that right now you are getting less sleep doing SR than before you started SR? I know I am but I have read where a lot of people get less sleep after they started SR than before. It takes awhile to start getting more sleep. Just curious if that’s happening to you.
