[Steve]

It was a good night last night. I figured it might be as I only got 2 hours of sleep on Thursday night and I was exhausted Friday. I was barely functional at work. I did do some microsleeps while waiting for my SW to begin but I don’t think they affected my Sleep Drive much because when I went to sleep, I was asleep within 15 minutes. I think I awoke once during the night but it wasn’t for long and I then slept straight through to the alarm at 5:15. I can’t remember when the alarm got me up from a natural sleep. Has to be about 8 or 9 months now. I am still a little tired and some of the effects from insomnia remain but I have to remember I only got 5 hours and 15 minutes sleep. That’s way less than I need to get and used to get before the insomnia struck. So naturally I am not refreshed yet. And while I know I am not cured, I am heading in a good direction. I am concerned about tonight’s sleep since my sleep drive is low right now but I am trying to do what Martin said. Remain active throughout the day and don’t rest in a chair as I might fall asleep in it. Hopefully my SD will increase over the course of the day and I’ll get another good sleep in tonight.

You know Padron, Martin asked me a very interesting question about how do I feel when I get out of bed at 3:00 in the morning to do SC. I told him I was half awake and half groggy. He asked since I was still groggy, if I didn’t think I should stay in bed and try to fall asleep. I thought about it and our discussions on SC and I thought maybe I was just getting up a lot of times out of habit and didn’t need to. I will have to think about it more next time I need to do SC at that time.

[obribri]

Steve, yes that is a difference then. I haven’t gotten to the point where Martin’s adjusted my window yet so I hadn’t noticed. Dr. Rybarcyzk supported the idea of not being so strict on a lot of things (minus your sleep window) and that included the adjustment of the sleep window. Sometimes we adjusted mine 30 minutes, other times it was 15 minutes depending on how I was feeling. He also had the 85% rule. Since most of it was the same, I would say I trust Martin’s methods. The hand holding is what I needed to. It’s hard to implement even though you know the basics. When you pay, that’s a different story since you’re now being hold accountable. Plus, Martin responds very quickly if you have questions, are feeling discouraged, or just need a supportive text/email. Good luck to all of us!

[RoyN]

Steve wrote:  “You know Padron, Martin asked me a very interesting question about how do I feel when I get out of bed at 3:00 in the morning to do SC. I told him I was half awake and half groggy. He asked since I was still groggy, if I didn’t think I should stay in bed and try to fall asleep. I thought about it and our discussions on SC and I thought maybe I was just getting up a lot of times out of habit and didn’t need to. I will have to think about it more next time I need to do SC at that time.”

Steve, is it possible that you are sleeping and not even realizing it?  If you are getting up while you are groggy, I think it is very possible that you are!  My rule of thumb is to get up and do SC when I am frustrated.  Sometimes I perceive that I have been tossing and turning for a long time but then when I check myself, I am relaxed.  Every time that happens it means I have been sleeping more than I thought.  Besides if I am relaxed, it probably means I am keeping a good association with the bed and there is no reason to get up.  However, even if you are sleeping and wake up frustrated, getting up is a good idea until you are relaxed as you will probably not get to sleep that way anyhow.

[Steve]

You might be right Roy in that I could have been in Stage I sleep. All I know is that when I woke, I was so used to doing SC at that time that I said I might as well get up and do it since I normally have to at this time. But that thinking was while I was in my groggy state.

[Steve]

So disappointing. I seem to be in a rut. Good sleep night then bad sleep night then good then bad. Last night was horrendous after a very good Friday night. I stayed active all day yesterday to make sure I built my sleep drive but I hardly got any sleep at all. Maybe an hour. The rest was tossing and turning and doing SC. Anybody else have cycles like this?

[delv-x]

Hi Steve,

Yes I have cycles but they are more like a few good days and then a wave of bad days. I am on the 5th bad day in a row with 1:20 to 5:00hrs of sleep.

[RoyN]

Steve, sorry yo hear about your bad night.  I have had the exact same type of cycle in the past.

I think most of us here are worriers and obviously in a very fragile state around sleep.  It is not a normal state to get up and then spend most of the morning ruminating about the previous night and  already starting to think about the upcoming night.   I think part of the problem is we set ourselves up for a bad night by overthinking.  For me, I SO BADLY want to be over this sleep issue that when I have a great night I am even MORE worried the next night because I so badly want to keep it going and not fall back to square one.  I am also acutely aware that my sleep drive might not be as strong after a good night which is also setting myself up for a bad night.

Easier said than done, but the only answer is to relax about the whole thing.   We have very little control other than what time we go to bed and wake up.  My theory is the stronger the Type A person, the longer it takes SR to work because we are always evaluating and trying to control the process.  It will  eventually work for strong type A’s too because at some point your mind just wears down and gives in, it just may take a little longer.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by RoyN.

[Steve]

Thanks Delv and Roy. I know what you mean about thinking about the next night’s sleep after you have a good one. I was warned about keeping active the next day after having a good sleep because your sleep drive won’t be as strong as when you were massively tired the previous night. I did keep active yesterday and even though I was yawning like crazy and had trouble keeping my eyes open, I still couldn’t sleep. It is rather frustrating. I would just like to string a couple good nights in a row. I know I will have relapses but I can handle that as I have been warned about them. But this one night good night and then the next bad and then repeating itself seems like a cruel joke someone is playing on me. Hope you both have better sleep soon.

[delv-x]

I know, it is cruel and wouldn’t want to wish this on anybody. I hope things improve for you soon!

Thank you

[Pam1129]

I’m very new to this site, I’ve been doing SR for four nights now and am about to go nuts lol!’ I’m staying up until 12:30, getting up at 6

im really struggling to stay awake from the 10:30-12:30 time ( because 10:30 was my previous bedtime )

i am still waking several times , so I’m guessing if I’m awake for 30 min, I need to  be getting up ?? I’m determined to get ‘better’

so I’ve been encouraged , reading the different posts … I’m going on 18 years with this crapppp??

[Steve]

Hi Pam. Welcome to the club. Yes, if you can’t fall asleep within 30 minutes , you are supposed to get up for 30 minutes or until you feel sleepy and then go back to bed. Since we are anxious about the connection between bed and tossing and turning, many of us become wide awake every time we go back to bed. I was virtually a human yo-yo in my first week of SR as I had to get out of bed and then go back to bed several times during the night. I got very little sleep that week and actually got less than before I started SR. However, that has happened to many people so don’t be surprised if you are getting less sleep also. My window is 11:45 to 5:15 and yes, sometimes I struggle to make the 11:45 window. In the second week, my sleep began to consolidate so I did not have to get up as much. Now I just need to sleep more so I can increase my window but that can take awhile I am told. A long while, as SR is not a quick and easy cure for insomnia, although it beats the sleeping pills which never helped me.

Did you take lessons in CBT-i anywhere? If you didn’t, Martin offers two courses on this site. I took the free one and it helped but I need a little more hand holding so I signed up for the paid course and I just started that. If you haven’t taken any CBT-i courses yet and aren’t sure if you want to take the paid one, make sure you take the free one as it can be very helpful. And stay in touch on this thread as those of us who are on SR like to encourage each other. Good luck to you with your sleep.

[Steve]

Hi Pam. How did you do last night? Did you have to get up many times? FYI, I ran across Martin’s video where he said we don’t have to get out of bed for the 30 minutes if it’s too much for us. We can stay up and read in bed. It’s not as good as getting out of bed but better than staying in bed and tossing and turning. My sleep is back to being fragmented and so I awoke several times last night but fortunately, didn’t have to get up as I went back to sleep after awhile. Are you here in the US? What time zone are you in? I am in the eastern time zone in New York State.

[Steve]

Wow! I seem to be regressing. I have had two bad nights in a row. I know that is not unusual but I was doing rather well all things considered. On both nights I got to sleep within 15 minutes but then awoke about 15 after that. I find if I don’t fall asleep fast  and stay asleep for awhile, my sleep for the night suffers, and it did. I did get 4 hours and 3 hours respectively, but it was a very fitful sleep and I ended up getting out of bed for good way earlier than my sleep window would have allowed me two. It’s disappointing because yesterday, i worked around the house very hard mowing the lawn and cleaning out and planting the garden. I was hoping my sleep drive would build but by bedtime, it seemed to have disappeared. I know some of you have mentioned how your SD disappears as well as bedtime comes on. I don’t know if I am still anxious about going to bed and that’s why I don’t feel the sleep drive or if it’s something else. All I know is that last week I had a 4.5 and a 5.0 hours sleep and I want them back.

[finbop12]

Hi, this is my first post on here but I’ve been reading through the forum and have just completed Martin’s free course. I’ve been doing SR and SC for 2 weeks now and my sleep window is 12-6. I am really struggling to stay up until 12 and my sleep is really irregular. Saturday night I went to bed at 12, fell asleep by 12.30-3 woke up and went back to sleep until 6am…yay! and then last night I was dropping to sleep sitting up from 9.30-11 and then I seemed to wake up and had gone past the tiredness by 12! I went to bed but didn’t fall asleep and then my anxiety went sky high and guess what a night of hardly any sleep, I don’t even know how much but it felt like none! These alternate nights seem to be a pattern and are so frustrating! I’m not sure if this is usual or maybe I should change my SW to earlier to bed and get up. Feeling so tired and fed up today and struggling to stay positive ?

[Steve]

Hi again finbot12. Yes, the alternating cycles are quite normal. We all have them. Sooner or later though (hopefully sooner) we break out of the pattern and start having more good nights than bad. Remember that CBT-i is not easy. If it was, nobody would have insomnia.

[Author]

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