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Thank you Deb,, you are very kind for offering that. I have found you, but just need to know how/when you would want me to contact you.
Hi Deb – I know you have recommended I seek help directly from Dr. Kat, and I am not ready to ask my husband to spend the money. I would rather like to try and find someone in my area who counsels using ACT-I, but falls under my insurance plan. I am finding that rather difficult as there seems to be on one. I can’t even find someone who works with CBT-I. When you say accept whatever happens in bed, I am doing that, night after night, yet I get the same result which is to lie awake in a calm state. I follow the exercises for a very short time and not all night, so I am no longer working or doing something. I never expect sleep or have any expectations of the night. I know you have said before I perhaps have anxieties I am not dealing with or need that extra coaching help, but I am just not understanding why this method is not helping me when I think I am following it correctly. I know you can’t answer! I’m just putting my feelings out here.
Deb – Yes, thank you, you are figuring me out very well! That is my main problem as I don’t think I am not a good sleeper or worry about not getting a good night. It is just I am so conditioned to being aroused in bed. I am trying to practice mindfulness during the day and will keep working on it. I actually don’t like mindfulness at all. I find it kind of painful for lack of a better word? I just find it hard! I have been listening to meditation style music before I go up to bed which I like, and then journaling, but last I didn’t sleep well as I had very light, dream filled, unrefreshing “sleep”. I see what you mean about not practicing mindfulness all night, but to try it for a few minutes and then quit letting the mind wander.
David-I meant to thank you for writing and pointing me to the podcast. I find your method of making it 4 hours at whatever time you decide interesting. I’m glad it works for you.
To everyone else – if I have not thanked you and you have given me advice, thank you! I’m not great as giving the advice as I don’t have much positives to report yet.
Christie – that is so awesome and encouraging!
I am struggling as thought I was very accepting last night, and actually almost fell asleep, but then the arousal kicked in and I was up most of the night, until I got out of bed and went to the guest room. I think maybe I had 2 hours then early morning. Another hard thing about this is when you are almost there, and then, bang, wide awake and you lose it. I wasn’t focusing on that at all either which is so frustrating! And I understand the concept of acceptance, but again, my mind is just way too busy. I need to stay consistent I think with journaling right before I go do bed, and maybe the professional help.
I can relate to each one of your struggles, and I am just praying for everyone.
Lori
Deb – Thanks for the encouragement. That night I did fall off into sleep, I told myself that the struggle for “us” is over and that sleep is not the enemy and then I just went off. I awakened a few times and was able to fall back. I remember I journaled before I went to bed which I don’t normally do. My mind was not particularly busy though. The next night, I did not journal and also did not fall asleep at all the whole night so it was bad. Then night before last, I had to take something because I had a busy dinner party here at my house and had a lot of cooking to do. I had maybe 7 hours of “drug” sleep as I like to call it. Then last night, I drifted off for maybe 5 hours and then awakened and could not get my mind to stop. As you know, my biggest trouble is getting the mind to stop working at night. I have gotten up to journal to try and calm it down, and sometimes that is very helpful. I am still considering working with Kat. I need to find out costs and things like that.
Gdsmom – I can relate totally to wishing for the “old”me. I have had insomnia so long that I am a different person because of it and so I accept that. I don’t give up thinking that insomnia will improve for me, but I have had to accept the dark eye bags and feeling like *&*&* a lot! Very difficult.
Steve – you are not alone as you know. I would love to experience too that normal night. Just go to bed, have enough that I need which is 7-8, and just wake up! It is so hard this problem, but I have been inspired by your posts.
Mac – you are so right how that one awful experience stays stuck there and how we have to accept those times we are in zombie land. If only we could back, and have certain things erased! I would love to have that one thought that started this for me just gone and I wonder how my life would have been then?
Deb-So night before last, I had told myself that there is no longer a struggle for us (meaning me and my thoughts) with sleep. I had a fairly decent night. Then last night, I was back to being wide awake again and despite doing nothing, I just laid there. I examined to see if I was struggling, and I don’t feel I was. Just thinking a lot like I normally do about other things and something did happen last night that spurred me into thinking mode. The reason I mentioned combining the two I think, is because I thought David said he had results with a sleep window, but had adopted the ACT acceptance, etc., too. He seems well versed with it. I know ACT is completely different than CBT-I. I was reading how different they are not just in the insomnia realm, but just in general mental therapy. But I am pretty sure I have read that people with insomnia have used a combined approach at least with the thinking aspect? I understand though that Kat does not think this should be done.
Deb – I will definitely let you know if I do go with Kat and what I have learned. Thanks for all your support and help. I did read through the chapter on acceptance again, and one thing that struck me this time was to think about how I feel about my insomnia and just the reiteration of how the struggle, the battle, was self created. If only I was that person who could brush things off think about the fear differently. Thanks for sharing about your husband! I found it quite admirable the attitude he has. Mine is also the total opposite of me, which is a good thing! I have had insomnia the whole time we have been together, married, over 25 years so bless his heart, he has been through it all. He is the calming force most of the time. He is an intellectual!
David – I think you are right that many insomniacs are obsessive and more anxious. I have always been a worrier and deep, over thinker. I noticed in your post that you did find sleep restriction in addition to the ACT the most helpful. Do you get out of bed when you could not sleep? What I’m finding so far with ACT is inconsistency. I seem to get it one night, and then not the next. With sleep restriction, I struggle with getting up at the alarm or end of the sleep window IF I have fallen into a deep sleep. I know getting up is supposed to build sleep drive for the next night, but for me, this does not happen. In fact, I have just as much if not more difficulty. I get frustrated to be awakened if I am in fact sleeping. Also, how often do you practice mindfulness during the day? Do you set a time or just try to do it every time you think of it throughout the day?
Deb-I guess then I don’t really understand ACT. To get to a place of acceptance, it takes work. Even if you let your mind wander, it is doing something? Even if you are telling yourself to accept whatever happens, you are doing something. I did read the book and about Carlos, and then the following chapters are all the exercises on how to deal with the thoughts, etc. and that for me is work. I might contact Dr. Kat as I am desperate! Thank so much. I know you are trying to help me!
Hi Deb-I feel everything is the same. I usually have light sleep, and the occasional good night. Sometimes if it take klonopin or xanax, I will get a good night. So doing the ACT so far had not given me anything different. I do feel I am relaxed and if I sense not, I begin the exercise of acceptance, and stare at something like the window because I don’t know what else to do. My mind is usually very busy and wandering. I let it do that, but it really seems it wants to work and not rest.
Deb – I am glad you are feeling better and the program is working for you. I would have replied sooner, but for some reason, I stopped getting notifications for this thread through email. I just happened to look and saw there were some new posts. I wish I could say I am better. I am doing what I should be, and consistently, as far as ACT, and I am still not getting the results. I am continuing though and not giving up. I have not gone back to CBT-I yet, but it is still something I am considering. Most of the sleep I might get doing ACT is light and unrefreshing. On occasion, I might go into a deeper sleep, and although positive, it isn’t enough yet to make me feel well rested. Your story and others give me hope though! I’ll keep at it. God Bless everyone!!!!
billybuddhav – I can totally relate to this. It isn’t always anxiousness or stress, the brain just wants to stay busy. I wish there was an off switch!
Hi Tswezey, I am curious to know if you do get out of bed when you can’t go back after 4 or 5 hours? I do find that getting out of bed is better than laying in bed. I doze off better if I do that than laying there trying to relax. I know your situation is not ideal at all and I am not minimizing it, but be encouraged that getting 4 or 5 hours of good quality sleep is better than getting none or light, unrefreshing sleep. I know 4 or 5 hours is still difficult.
Hi Charlie, your situation sounds so similar to many others including mine who just one day have a fear or thought they may not sleep and so the vicious cycle beings. Mine started with a reading a an article in a fitness magazine about how important sleep was for good health and then my brain latched onto that and so it all began. It doesn’t always start with trauma unfortunately. I wish I had known about the methods like CBT-I back when I started having issues. I instead went to a psychiatrist, was given sleeping medications, anti anxiety meds, along with therapy for anxiety, but none of that led to a long term solution. I know there are many here who have been cured or have significant improvements with CBT-I and/or ACT. Many have incorporated bits of both and so it probably would be good to start reading up on them. I signed up for Martin’s free email course on how to implement CBT-I which is excellent and a great place to start. Since you are just starting to have issues, I think you can get back on track quickly!
Martin- So when I try sleep restriction, what I can’t get past is the times where after being like that yo yo, up and down, I have FINALLY fallen in a deep sleep only to be awakened out of it at the end of the window. That leaves me so frustrated. It wouldn’t IF I were able to go that next night and fall asleep faster/better, but it has not happened to me yet. In fact, it is always worse that next night. I know the point is that the sleep drive will increase, but I have not experienced this the next night after being awakened from a deep sleep. I’m having a really hard time getting past this while trying to implement the sleep restriction program.
Deb-that’s great news!!!! So happy to hear that. Has it been 1 or 2 weeks since you’ve restarted ACT? Are you doing mindfulness during the day? As far as not feeling sleepy, I have fallen asleep without that feeling and was surprised so I know what you mean. The problem is more often than not, my mind is stronger and doesn’t want to sleep no matter how much I acknowledge them and let them go. No matter how much I relax. I tell myself the body will sleep when it wants to, but it really doesn’t seem to want to in my case! If I am laying awake all night, it is with my eyes closed and the thinking as if I am working all night. Last night I was so fed up, I did get up and just sat downstairs and wrote things out but also just let my mind think as much as it wanted.Then I went back into the bed even thoug I did not feel sleepy, thought I drifted off but then noticed my husnand’s breathing whichvis loud and so I went to the guest room where I think I slept some then went back to my bed after my husband got up for the day an I think I slept an hour and made sure I was up at 8. Another problem, sometimes if I am going off I wake up to my own snore. I am thin, don’t sleep apnea, but I do snore so between the excessive thinking, the snore sometimes, the occasional hypnic jerks, and restless legs, I mean what a battle! My rls though is on and off too so I am not always plagued by everything all the time except the mind thinking. I am sorry to sound negative and I truly do want to get better! Thank you for pointing that out though about not necessarily feeling sleepy and still the body will/can take over. It is true.
