2nd week of CBT-I – very wonky sleep

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  • #65068
    Nicki H
    ✘ Not a client

      Hi, I have started doing CBT-I with a psyschologist after 14 years of not sleeping well. I started with a big jump from 60% sleep efficiency to 75% in the first week and didnt find it too hard until the end of that week where exhaustion hit. I was given half hour back for my new bedtime and this week has been awful, back to waking twice and awake for sometimes 2 hours within the sleep restriction window. I have suspected chronic fatigue syndrome also so feeling absolutely shattered. The psychologist has told me to stick to the plan of the new longer bedtime and in a few days I also get another half hour but it seems I was much better at the later bedtime in terms of sleep consolidation. I’m struggling to trust the process and wondering if there is typically an a slight improvement each week or do people find some weeks worse than others/can it be a bit of a rollercoaster with good and bad weeks? I am so exhausted and wondering whether there is genuine hope that the worst of sleepers can still find improvement in CBT-I. Thanks, Nicki

      #65075
      Chee2308
      ✓ Client

        When you are sleeping better, your sleep will get slightly worse going forward, what’s really so surprising about that?? What would be surprising if you kept on sleeping more and more despite the increased sleep duration! It’s like expecting to get hungrier and hungrier as you fill your stomach. Does that make any sense?

        Be logical and rational with your expectations. Nothing is going to help you if you have unrealistic expectations right from the start. Expecting to sleep longer after an improvement is not realistic. So is expecting sleep through the night and not waking up at all. You will start waking up more the more you sleep, typically when your body is cycling between the stages of sleep. And the thing is you have absolutely no control over that.

        #65077
        Nicki H
        ✘ Not a client

          I guess this wasnt something that the psychologist said to me, he said there were no guarantees, but with the new bedtimes, he said ‘typically’ it improves week by week. I am not expecting perfect sleep after 2 weeks, but i guess i thought i would have had a similar week not a worse than the first week. I’m an overthinker and even having the diary with it all in front of me means it’s on my mind – but all the more so it’s all the symptoms that come from even worse sleep that fuels me worrying about how much sleep i get. I dont mind waking up, i know that is normal, but so long as i go back to sleep, that is the tricky part for me. Im finding it hard to have no expectations at all and go with the flow on this but i guess i just gotta keep moving forward.

          #65079
          Chee2308
          ✓ Client

            I guess what really isn’t improving is your mindset about sleep. Your true sleep ability never changed. It’s your thoughts toward sleep that has. And it’s really hard to see the objective truth when you are being told one thing or another by an “expert” and you had no way of verifying them so you just went go along with whatever. What is the objective truth about sleep? Did anyone ever tell you that insomniacs and good sleepers don’t really sleep that much differently? Actual polysomnographic studies done on wide variety of test subjects, on both insomiacs and good sleepers, showed that the amount of time slept by these subjects varied only by, like just 5 mins on average (423 mins vs 418 mins)?? And another surprising fact, it was the insomniac group that collectively scored that extra 5 mins! Source: Youtube (ChatGPT has the answer: Heard online #39) by The Sleep Coach School.

            These findings quite reflect reality in my opinion. If you think of sleep as another one of your core biological functions such as eating or breathing, then believing you are a “bad” eater or breather cannot possibly detract from the fact that your body still possess those abilities innately. Being convinced somehow that you are a bad eater will never negate the ability of that function in your body. So unfortunately, the fact here is that you are simply being confused about your own beliefs and the actual reality, leading you to reach the wrong conclusion that something about you is wrong when there really isn’t! Good luck to you and I hope you come to the same realization eventually.

            #65083
            Nicki H
            ✘ Not a client

              Thanks so much for writing this. Absolutely, it’s my belief or worry about whether I am unfixable that needs to change – after a 3 year period of ill health, i ended up with terrible health anxiety and lack of sleep just made it worse, so fretting about health with insomnia as the overarching obstacle that has felt like something i have been unable to fix no matter what – it has all come together as one big beast that needs to be tackled. It is 100% my mindset that needs work – I have started listening to affirmations, noticing and labeling thoughts and I genuinely do daily meditation and yin yoga. I definitely need to get out of my own head. I really appreciate you writing this, which confirms that I am going in the right direction in terms of knowing what to do, it will just take time to rewrite the programs that have been running for some time now. Thank you!

              #65085
              Chee2308
              ✓ Client

                I always can tell someone is on the right path when they accept facts objectively and are not blinded by their own emotions, ego or please excuse my choice of word here, ignorance. The key to a real recovery isn’t trying so hard to escape from it. It is in embracing it and accepting that some form of insomnia will always be a part of living. Insomnia isn’t all that new or distant to anyone. You must have had it innumerable times before in the past but those episodes are somehow conveniently forgotten now due to the FUD going on. Sleeping wasn’t a skill that was learnt or acquired so how could it ever be lost?? It was and still is part of you as much as your personality is. And where sleeping is concerned, there always will be times when it is elusive although never permanent, well that’s just life. Insomnia or not sleeping well temporarily isn’t the enemy, it was and always is yourself all along. You are finding fault with an indispensable part of life. When it rains and thunders heavily, do you go out, curse the heavens and try to punch the rain because you simply don’t like this natural phenomenon? Or would you rather just stay inside your warm comfy home and wait it out because it will pass eventually? Don’t blame yourself for what it isn’t your fault. That only creates unnecessary and needless suffering. The key to a complete and long lasting recovery is always desensitization and this usually happens over time. No amount of words will convince you that this is true now but I hope you’ll see the light eventually. Remember that any sleep you potentially lose tonight or on any nights will always be recaptured in due course because tonight isn’t the only night when you’ll sleep. There will always be plenty of opportunities to sleep in the future and each difficult episode will hone your skill and mould your mindset further. Over time, insomnia just doesn’t bother or scare you anymore. It happened like that to me and to many others as well, likewise it will happen to you too once you develop the correct behaviors and get into the right mindset. Good luck to you and always be kind and gentle to yourself.

                #65103
                Martin Reed
                ★ Admin

                  Ups and downs at night are normal, just as ups and downs during the day are normal. No human being lives a life that only gets better and better and only improves day after day until the day they die, right?

                  So, please be kind to yourself and continue to practice responding to all this difficult stuff in a way that will help you move away from struggling with it.

                  You might find my podcast episode with Eddie helpful since he talks about his own ups and downs: How Eddie got through the ups and downs of insomnia by implementing a plan that stopped it from controlling his life (#46).

                  If you are ready to stop struggling with insomnia you can enroll in the online insomnia coaching course right now! If you would prefer ongoing phone or video coaching calls as part of a powerful three month program that will help you reclaim your life from insomnia, consider applying for the Insomnia Mastery program.

                  The content of this post is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.

                  #65237
                  Nicki H
                  ✘ Not a client

                    Many thanks, Martin. I will definitely check the podcast out.

                    #65239
                    Nicki H
                    ✘ Not a client

                      Thanks so much, yes when i referred to being on the right path, i meant the things i am now starting to read around thoughts becoming things and the need to rewire the brain also that realisation from you yesterday was HUGE for me in that i have blamed insomnia as being this awful beast that needs to be tamed in order to get well, and now I realise it’s actually my mind that needs to change in order to get well and sleep well. It’s been 14 years of disrupted sleep and other health challenges, so for me i have found it difficult to change my mindset when i am repeatedly presented with the physical symptoms that make like pretty tough. I do place a lot of blame on myself for how i impact other people’s lives (particularly my son) in terms of having the energy to do various things. I think ultimately I need to re teach my brain that I am no longer living in fear…and I feel somewhat lost about the most effective way to let go of the fear, let go of the blame, let go of the guilt and to accept it all while still proactively doing the right thing for sleep to come. It’s true that i have definitely over-focused on the latter over the years. Thanks also for the sleep coach school content you referred to. Very helpful.

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