[delv-x]

Hey folks,

Not sure if the crew is still around. I have been doing well for years actually! Most nights uneventful which is good. Maybe once a month a little bit of issues that aren’t really a concern. Last 2 nights have been rough. Anxiety, arousal, difficultly falling and staying asleep. Doing my best to move forward and not worry. Sometimes it’s hard when confidence is broken rather quickly and having a night feeling all tense is just awful feeling. Hopefully this slip passes soon.

Hope everyone else is been well. I really have sleep wise and this walloped me having almost 0 sleep.

[gsdmom]

Hi delv-x,

Hope you get deep, refreshing sleep tonight!

Although I’ve been doing very well, I don’t know if my sleep routine will ever return to the way it was prior to insomnia. I’ve been sleeping with ear buds listening to various soothing meditations, hypnosis or audio books like the Power of Now, or audio works from the Mindful Movement or John Moyer. I’ve also been taking CBD in a capsule (with no THC). I use it to help with arthritis, muscle and joint pain at night. Although it does not help with falling asleep, I feel once I am asleep I can sleep a bit deeper and longer. One of my co-workers says it helps her with sleep too. Acupuncture can help with anxiety and stress and it has helped me with sleep in the past.

I can usually get over upsetting emotions or feelings by accepting them, observing them, realizing they are normal, having compassion for myself and talking to myself like I would talk to a good friend or family member. After a few hours I am mostly over it. From the above resources I learned to think of myself as transparent and imagine the unpleasant things just passing through me, or John Moyer has some messages where you “Nothing it, Nothing them” and get to a neutral place.

Since sleep is so important to a strong immune system, if I am struggling to sleep (which often happens during a new or full moon) I accept it and take 1/4 to 1/2 an Ambien. I never need a full dose anymore. It’s probably more psychological support than the medication itself. Since a medication side effect brought me into insomnia in the first place, I am terrified of getting the Covid vaccination as I am so sensitive to medications in general, so my priority is to have a healthy and strong immune system. I recently had a muscle injury and could only take an OTC medication like Aleve for 2 days, as it’s side effects were worse than my injury. Since the pandemic I’ve constantly worked with lots of people contact. I have not isolated and am doing OK.

[delv-x]

Thanks gsdmom. I hope for deep refreshing sleep too, if not, that’s ok, no expectations. I don’t use any ear buds or anything like that. I find it distracting especially if it’s to “fall asleep”. I usually have a fan on for white noise. Even with it off, I can usually sleep fine but it’s just nice to have on. I tried CBD in the past but it is another crutch to hope I can sleep better, it doesn’t.

The best thing that’s worked for me is to let go. Just go to bed and do nothing. My mind often goes and thinks about my day, shows i’ve watched. I just enjoy the show and then sleep.

Last night was the first time I took a sleeping pill in years. I just couldn’t bear to toss and turn all night. I did half and then another half later to reduce the dose but stretch it out longer.

This always works itself out. We just need to muddle through a bit.

[Mac0908]

Wow long time no speak, Delv. These days I am sleeping well most of the time and when I don’t, my anxiety is behind it, which was really the case all along with me, it was just at a more serious degree back then. Gone are the days of having to do any form of sleep restriction, ACT, “wind downs”, herbal tea or even no phones an hour before bed. Though all those things were somewhat important imo with regards to ridding my brain/body of the overwhelming insane sleep anxiety at the time from late 2016 to what I’d say was mid 2019. These days I am back to being a normal sleeper who just so happens to have their sleep disrupted by anxiety. It’s not extreme enough for me to be on medication (never have) and it’s not extreme enough for me to need to be in therapy, but it’s definitely there and I try and work on it.

For example the early wake ups for work, I always explained how those were a problem in my recovery, but the truth is, they were always somewhat of a problem for me. Even before my insomina began, waking up that early gave me trouble sometime. Maybe not to the extent it eventually did, but there were some issues. But while my ‘alarm anxiety’ has subsided almost completely these days, it’s more so my regular anxiety that can be the main culprit, whether it being something happening to me during the day, or especially a few hrs prior to sleep, that can take over my mind and give me trouble that night. For example recently I had some very serious car trouble that turned my world upside down for a bit. It caused my mind to worry and these thoughts would take over a bit while in bed, causing me to fall asleep super late and also led to somewhat broken sleep. The next day I felt like a zombie, though these days I don’t let it bother me like I used to because I know in short time, whether in another day or even a few days, things will subside and I will sleep better.

It still makes me nervous of course. What if I have a kid one day or what if a family member of mine gets sick/in trouble or what if I start a new job that requires me to be on the ball in a huge way? I’ve accepted the fact that I’m a bit of an anxious person in general. Always have been. But maybe one day I will have to experiment with some sort of sleep aid, even if it’s just temporarily. I know that’s the last thing we want to have to deal with (pills), but the reality is some of us are just prone to being this way and there’s not all that much we can do to completely rid ourselves of it.

Until next time, hope you are doing well.

[delv-x]

Hey Mac,

Happy new year and everyone else who may still be reading. I hear ya about car trouble or some sort of trigger causing a bit of a relapse. I have been good for months!. I had a situation early this week that wound me up in a perpetual thinking loop all day and that led to worry/anxiety and sure enough came along for the midnight ride. I’ve had 3 nights of difficulty and of course it starts making me think about it more. And the lack of sleep heightens the nervousness and such which doesn’t help.

It is uncomfortable having these bad nights but I’ll muddle out of it. The solution is to do nothing which actually is easier said than done because we are trying to fix something that’s not really broken.

Hope everyone is well!

[Mac0908]

Hi Delv long time no speak. I definitely know what you mean. Recently I had a death in the family, along with a little bit of family drama included, and let’s just say falling asleep at my normal times was not happening for me. It was a very rough few nights. Couple that in with having to be back in the office now instead of working from home and it became pretty awful.

For me at least though, I’ve accepted the fact that this happens sometimes though, even as long as a week, maybe more, and then it will pass. Even normal sleepers experience this during rough times. Think of that Delv. I don’t think anybody sleeps well 365 nights a year.

[delv-x]

Hey Mac,

Yes, it has! Been awhile. I’ve had death in the family before and it can wreck havoc for sure. The drama just adds fuel to the fire. I had about a week of poor sleep around Jan 20th and it was very likely triggered by employment finding stress. I got let go not too long ago and thoughts run through my mind. The good news is I’ve been through poor sleep many times and although it sucks and in the heat of it all feels like it will never get better, it does. I’ve been sleeping fairly well for about a week now.

Acceptance is helpful. Even when you accept poor sleep, it may not fix things right away but is the shortest path than trying to fix it. When I am too stressed or anxious, all I can do is just accept it and let it pass.

[Mac0908]

Hard to beleive I’m back, but I have hit rockbottom today, and am back here looking for support. Long story short, I’m back in the office full time since late January after nearly two years of work from home/hybrid, and simply put it has not been good to my sleep. This bad phase has gone on so long now that my poor sleep is even carrying over to the weekend, though I do sleep better overall on those days. In any event, even though my overall understanding of insomnia, sleep anxiety and sleep in general is compeletely changed from where I was years ago, I am currently in a full fledged bad phase the likes of which I have not experienced in a long, long time.

As I documented in earlier posts, being able to start working from home in March 2020 and eliminating my forced 10-1030pm bedtimes and my way too early 6:00am alarm and “trading” it in for what would become 11-1130pm bedtimes and a 7:30am wake up instead, essentially helped bring my already improving insomnia at the time to a near cured level. I was always more of a guy who went to bed a bit later normally, and being able to do so again was a beautiful thing. I still had the occasional bad night and sometimes bad weeks while working from home, but for the most part it was a completely different world for me of remembering what feeling refreshed (most days) felt like. As the return to the office and hybrid working began in late 2021, (every other day in the office), my alarm anxiety began returning, little by little, and ever since my full time return in late January I have basically been a mess.

My casual later (usually 11pm) bedtimes turned into back into forced 10pm bedtimes, with the all too familiar “Better fall asleep soon or you’ll be exhausted tomorrow” feelings. And yes, I know I shouldn’t think like that. I know all the rules. I know ACT. I know it all. But the bottom line is if a person isn’t tired, they’re just not going to fall asleep. Go to bed later? It could work. Problem is though now I don’t have the extra time to sleep once the morning comes around. The story is once I head to bed around 10pm, I’ll typically toss and turn for an hour, only to finally fall asleep around the 11:30pm time. Given all that mess and that much time spent in bed awake, it triggers some inner anxiety that makes sleep less deep in general and almost always also leads to the dreaded early wakeups even before my alarm.

Simply put – having a forced 6am wakeup is NOT good for me.

I should note that even though it might sound like it, I don’t have actual “sleep fear” anymore at all, but instead just the general anxiety associated with having to wake up very early again, having to get ready, shower, get dressed, commute, and to be back in the office in general for five days after nearly two YEARS of what was an amazing stress free lifestyle, etc. When you’re an insomniac as I used to be, trading all that in to simply reach for your laptop on your nightstand in the morning is an amazing and life changing difference only people like us can truly understand. But as someone who always kind of struggled waking up very early even pre-insomnia, I knew full well that I would never fully “heal” as long as my 6am five days a week alarm was in place. In the months leading up to the pandemic in March 2020 I was finally looking to really make a move that would even get me a later schedule at work. So when the pandemic hit it was a blessing in disguise, so to speak. Now that life, or work at least, is back to normal full time, with it has come this dehabilating experience I am currently going through.

So in conclusion, at this point I think its safe to say that I am a person who is simply not cut out for early morning wakeups, at least not full time, and that I need to find a position at work that will allow me to come in later. That is my plan right now. If anyone, Martin especially, has any words of support or advice I’d love to hear. Thank you.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Mac0908.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Mac0908.

[delv-x]

I hear ya about waking up early full time. For the past few weeks, I’ve been getting up 1-2 hours before my wake up time of 7am. It’s annoying but it isn’t as bad as the past 3 days or so. My basement flooded and I’ve been doing remediation also while trying time to study for an exam and a new job stress. Last night was one of “those” nights. Stressful worrying feelings of even minor things causing me to stay awake. One night at a time, it sucks 🙁 But again, another 3 months of decent nights of sleep.

As with you Mac, I don’t have sleep fear to the point that “I will never sleep again”. I do doubt after a string of bad nights but I just keep going through my day and not worry about it. It does get harder as the lack of sleep hightens the stress level causing a spiral.

I am sure most of us are doing well. I think Ill feel better once the basement is addressed and I get more into the swing of the new job. It’s normal to feel stress and when that happens, I get jittery, not as hungry, more tense and of course sleep troubles!

[delv-x]

I am sure most of us have dwindled from this forum. I am glad and sure most of us have been sleeping well. I have for the most part except with this new job, I’ve been waking up 1-2 hours early fairly often. Last Friday was super stressful at work and over the weekend I’ve been having poor sleep thinking and worrying about everything I have to do and I am fairly certain it is the factor for the poor sleep.

I just try to nod it off and realize I can’t really fix it but rather accept and move on and wait until better sleep returns. Sometimes Ill read a bit of The Sleep Book to refresh myself on what I should do (not too much different) and what I can do to try to help.

Always a crappy feeling, oh well.

[Mac0908]

A big change in ones life such as a new job can absolutely be a trigger for people like us. You have to give it time and you have to settle in. I remember my first couple of weeks and especially first week of work from home. I didn’t have to commute so you’d think more sleep would be no problem, right? Turned out the anxiety of making sure I logged into the laptop and set up everything correctly got to me. It was a whole new world (never had worked from home before). After a while I slept well again once I was comfortable. It’s tough, but unfortunately the anxiety is wired in our DNA in my opinion. As long as you’ve done the previous work to understand that you can in fact sleep well and it’s just the anxiety tampering with your sleep, then you will eventually be fine. Hopefully sooner than later for you, Delv.

[delv-x]

Hey Mac,

Yes for sure. At my old job before covid it was pretty relaxed with some stressful times but my stresses were more family related. When covid hit and I could work from home, it was better generally because I could sleep in, no commute and people around me.

My new job is more labour and hands on and although I’ve been doing it for a few months, I get stressed. The thing is yes there is stress but it doesn’t seem to just go away like a light switch. I need to walk, work out, relax and let time pass. I guess I may need more stress management and do mindfulness more often. (I haven’t been doing it at all)

I do think we are wired in our DNA with anxiety. Some more than others but we all get it. It’s suppose to be a good thing to alert us of imminent danger. It’s trying to calm it after it passes or at least let it know the stress is here to stay for awhile, deal with it.

I will sleep better again. I always do, just difficult when it’s a rough night and most of the day my legs and arms are a little tingly numb and my brain just feels wired but not tired.

Good to hear from you

[Stirling]

Hi all,

I stumbled upon this thread today, and have to say thank you to all the contributing members for creating a wonderful resource. I’m hopeful reading about the success stories and also seeing the full context of the ups-and-downs as we take our own journeys to recover from chronic insomnia.

I’ve been aware of ACT for a few months, and had purchased The Sleep School app back in early July. I also ordered Dr. Guy’s The Sleep Book a couple of weeks ago and have read it a few times. I actually like the book more than the app as I find I can now navigate through the sections quickly.

I’ve been practicing ACT techniques at different times over the last 3 1/2 months of my current stretch of insomnia that started in the 3rd week of May. Early on, one of the biggest benefits I found was simply finding I was more “rested” in the morning, even if I’d had an empirically poor night of sleep. Dr. Daniel of The Sleep Coach School had a video where he mentioned that we sometimes wake up with the scars from having battled our *fear* of a Grizzly Bear that doesn’t really exist, and this resonated with me. On nights when I have lost my composure and struggled with wakefulness, I wake up with a tired head that has exhausted itself playing tug-of-war with sleeplessness.

I’m still catching up on the 108! pages of messages, but wanted to mention a really positive “accept” experience I had last night…

I went to bed at 10pm and awoke at 1:30am to the sound of loud music from my backyard neighbour’s yard. My sleep struggle is with early morning wake ups and being unable to return to sleep. My mind instantly thought, “Oh boy, I could be quite annoyed by this and end up having one of those nights.”, but I didn’t feel that immediate surge of adrenaline that I commonly experience upon waking up. Instead, I closed my bedroom window (hard to do on a warm August night!) and returned to sleep. Probably a few minutes later, I realized the music had stopped, so I reopened my window.

As I put my head back on my pillow, the music started up again. Oh boy! Interestingly, and without what felt like conscious effort, I remained in bed and thought, “I’m just going to listen and enjoy this music.” It was like a physical manifestation of accepting a thought. It happened to be a nondescript heavy metal guitar track, which is usually not my cup of tea.

Sure enough, I believe I fell back asleep quickly, and although I was awake again at 3:30am for the rest of the morning, I really thought of that first wakeup in a positive light.

I’m looking forward to participating more on this thread, thanks everyone!

• This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Stirling.

[delv-x]

Hi Stirling,

Glad you can join in. This is most likely one of the more comprehensive threads/discussions about ACT-I on the Internet. Not to go into too much detail since you’ve read Guy Meadows book, it often is better to “give up” rather than struggle. At times it is a struggle but the sooner you let it go, the faster you get back on your feet. I do have mostly good sleeps and then waves of poor sleep and sometimes reading his book or reading this thread helps (in small doses).

Anyway, welcome and feel free to contribute.

[Stirling]

delv-x,

Good catch on my use of “sleep struggle”, which is how I often describe what I’m going through with insomnia, i.e. “I’ve been struggling with my sleep.” Although I understand that, in practice, struggling with sleep only perpetuates the problem, I hadn’t realized that I’ve continued to refer to my experience as a struggle — I’m sending my brain mixed messages!

[Author]

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