[suren]

Thanks Deb. Last night I tried going to bed when neither tired nor sleepy, as I understood that this wasn’t a prerequisite for getting into bed. So I got into bed and decided to just accept the feeling of being alert. This didn’t work very well for me. I had another wreck of a night. So I can appreciate that you need to be at least tired when getting into bed.

About the watching tv in bed; a very bold suggestion indeed. And quite tempting as well, but after so many poor nights I’d likely hold off on further experimentation for a bit. This said, I am very curious about the outcome of doing this, so will revisit this experiment later. Will share the outcome when I do!

Suren

[Borgesbi]

Steve,

I read your post about a “pinging” going off in your head and what you described reminded me of what I experience when I have sleep paralysis. Have you ever heard of it? I used to be really scared of the experience but once I understood it better, the fear went away. I used to have tons of sleep paralysis but since I started CBT-I it went away. With ACT I had one little occurrence, which doesn’t bother me. People have different experiences with sleep paralysis and mine always involved this “electric current” running through my body or head. Very strange, but there is quite a bit of information on all this online, and a few studies done on sleep paralysis in case you want to check it out! Nothing to be scared of, it’s just areas of the brain activated together that usually aren’t – it’s a very unique state of consciousness.

[Steve]

Thanks Borgesbi. I’ll check it out. How are you doing with ACT by the way? Are you sleeping any better? I know you have less anxiety, as do I. I just need some more sleep.

[Deb]

Suren – I wonder why you weren’t tired or sleepy last night. You said you had another bad so I’m assuming you did the night before as well. Therefore, you should have been tired at night. Maybe it’s adrenaline keeping you awake, but underneath that is tiredness. I know for myself when I had bad nights, it was adrenaline that got me through the next day. And then at night it was hard to sleep because I was wired, just like an overtired kid who can’t settle down. Anyway, I wonder if you start getting the hang of mindfulness and you begin getting a taste of what “presence” feels like, or being in the moment, you’ll get more in touch with the tiredness and then it will be easier to go to sleep. Just a thought.

[Steve]

Hi Suren. I think a lot of us were in the same boat as you with CBT-i and so we tried ACT to supplement it. I have not had a refreshing sleep since I first got insomnia about 10 months ago. In answer to your question, I am posting two links about ACT that should give you the information you need about the differences between the two methods. There are a lot of similarities between the two but there are some major differences. Hope this clarifies things for you. Also, note that you may read this late as sometimes when links are posted in the message, it has to be cleared by Martin. https://contextualscience.org/acceptance_and_commitment_therapy_for_insomnia_act
and
https://contextualscience.org/files/ACT%20for%20Insomniacs.%20Meadows.pdf

[suren]

Thanks for the question Deb. I think you’ve in large part answered it. But I’d also like to cite the following personal observations:
– As your sleep system repairs itself, I feel that we become more attuned to sleepiness cues and tiredness. On the flip side of this, I’ve also noticed that the longer you go with poor/no sleep, the more desensitized you are to (not only feelings of sleepiness) but tiredness as well. There are many who theorize that it’s simply that these cues are being masked by anxiety, and this opinion may be perfectly valid. Perhaps another theory- is that you get so accustomed to feeling tired, the feeling is no longer foreign; it’s so much a part of you, you no longer notice it’s presence, or only do when tired to an extreme degree.

Additionally, like many practicing ACT have reported, even on poor/sleepless nights- the mere act of resting in bed for 7-8 hours, results in feeling less fatigued and tired the next day. So in my case, while there was some underlying tiredness, it wasn’t significant and readily perceptible.

Whatever the reason, meditation and mindfulness practices should certainly help!!

[suren]

Your response finally came thru Steve. Looking forward to checking out the links shared. Thank a lot!

[Deb]

What you said makes sense, Suren. I remember someone here sharing about how thrilled she was that in the first time in a long time, she was finally experiencing the wonderful sensation of sleepiness.

[Borgesbi]

Hi Steve,

So, ACT has been working miracles for me in eliminating anxiety which was getting totally out of control with CBT-I. Since I started ACT (2 weeks ago) anxiety and frustration crept in unexpectedly once or twice (in one of them I had a complete melt down) and it wasn’t easy to catch it and practice acceptance. These two times I fell into the trap of “believing” those feelings and found it hard to switch my mindset. The 2 times this happened, I picked up the book and read a few pages and that helped me turn things around (The Sleep Book). It hasn’t happened in a while now!

In terms of sleep, I think it has been much better than when I was doing CBTI. Sleep onset is barely a problem these days. I continue to experience awakenings that can last from just a few minutes to a couple of hours, as well as early awakenings, and light sleep here and there. Deep sleep is included in the pattern too! I tend to get 4 hours of uninterrupted deep sleep almost every evening – after that it tends to be light sleep or a longer awakening or back to deep sleep for another few hours. I’m not minding any of it.

I think what has been revolutionary for me, like for many of you as well, is the feeling of serenity I experience in bed now. That, I hadn’t experienced in so long and just being in bed feeling completely calm and relaxed, letting the mind wander and lightly doze off feels amazing, and to me this in itself is already a victory. If more consistency in deep and solid sleep starts to follow, it will be a plus!

I’m still sticking with a few rules of CBT-I that make sense to me but don’t keep track of my sleep or of all my behaviors in the way I did with CBT-I and that has been truly liberating.

Also, I’m super glad to see my post helped a few of you. Deb, a special thanks to you for introducing us to ACT and supporting us through this. If it weren’t for you, I’m pretty sure I’d still be struggling with severe anxiety in the evenings! Thanks again!

[Steve]

Glad to hear it Borgesbi. I’m glad you are getting better sleep. I no longer keep a sleep diary either. But I do get poor nights of sleep even though when i wake, I am completely relaxed in bed. A couple of times I wake up with anxiety but I can use the tools to calm down right away. Last night was a little quirky. I know it took a while for me to fall asleep and I thought I got some good sleep but this morning, as the day went on, it felt like those nights when I only got about 2 hours sleep. I was dragging and a little zombiesh. Still, I am accepting what happened and am looking forward to tonight’s sleep. Last night I went to bed so that I would be in bed 7.5 hours. I’m not sure if that was a mistake or not. I might go back to 7.0 hours tonight. Good luck to you with your sleep.

[Deb]

Borgesbi – very happy to help because I know how awful insomnia is. I had some terrible meltdowns too and once went to the emergency room because I was completely falling apart. My poor husband who had to deal with this basket case! I just feel so blessed to have recovered so quickly once I understood how ACT worked and how recovery took place, and then practiced it consistently. I wish it could be so quick for all of you, but at least everyone seems to be making progress. By the way, when did your insomnia start?

Suren – what kind of insomnia do you have – sleep onset or maintenance? Mine was onset and I could be in bed for hours never falling asleep.

[Pam1129]

Deb
I too want
To sincerely thank you for sharing your journey with us!!! Since I am not a client, i rarely do share, because I feel I haven’t earned that right however I am SO grateful for all this information!
It has saved me and my marriage haha
….. my husband knows that he is NOT allowed to ask me about my nights sleep , because truly it got too depressing , I wanted nothing to do with sharing about my sleepless night AGAIN! I was feeling like such a downer , he would feel so helpless and wanted so deeply to be able
To help me, fix me, encourage me in some way… I just wanted me ,to not ‘be broken’ anymore, which was how I felt… ‘what’s wrong with me?’ Just go to sleep , I would tell myself over and over again … but now after reading through the ‘sleep book’ placing too much energy on my insomnia was what brought all this anxiety on and made it worse… 19 years!!! So I AM ecstatic that I found this site , and to read all your posts, have been inspiring for sure !! I am only in chapter four, and just trying to figure
Out this welcoming stage, tonight will be my first attempt! So far however , since I’ havent been clock watching, sleep journaling, doing SC and for
Now going to bed when I’m tired ( that’s after watching tv, to wind down , but not while in bed) I am falling asleep rather quickly ( which wasn’t usually too difficult for me,) I just wake a lot , so is that sleep
Maintanence?
I think it was Borgesbi that
Mentioned that the anxiety is almost nil, and the feelings of serenity in bed has been wonderful , I believe the word ‘Liberating’ was what she used’ Amen!!! That’s me as well !
Acceptance !!! Who would have thought ?!! It almost makes me wanna laugh at myself because of all the MANY things I’ve done prior and you name it I’ve done it!! Now I say to my husband when I get up ‘hey guess what?! My sleeps getting better!!?
Sorry this is sooo long I truly want to just encourage those that are struggling to ‘let it
Go’ I KNOW easier said than done, and yes I still struggle too, I’m still waiting for one night where I go to bed
At 11 and sleep all the way to 5 with No wakes!! But I’m better thanks to reading and learning from ALL OF YOU!

[Deb]

Pam – some of us are clients and some of us aren’t, but we’ve all been going through the same struggle, so we all belong here, you included. I’m so glad you’re feeling hopeful and that it’s helping your marriage. My insomnia was hard on my husband too. He was very kind and supportive but I know it put a lot stress on him, worrying about me. On some level also, he just couldn’t really understand it. I think he just thought I had a lot of anxiety and that I was obsessing about it, so that’s why it wouldn’t go away. A couple counselors I talked to also thought this, and thought that medication for anxiety and compulsive obsession was the answer, which of course it wasn’t. I’m sorry that you felt “broken” and blamed yourself for having this problem. But it’s normal to feel like we’re defective when nobody else seems to understand what we’re going through. Only fellow insomniacs really understand what it’s like.

ACT is kind of “tricky” so please ask all your questions here because none of us are experts (except on our own insomnia and what’s worked for us), so we’re all trying to figure it out as we go along and are glad to share what we’ve learned along the way.

[Borgesbi]

Steve, I’m also on a SW but I allow some flexibility with it. Do you think giving more flexibility to your SW could help you think less about sleep? For me, it has helped – my rule is “as long as I don’t go to bed a lot earlier than 10pm and don’t sleep too long past 6am, I’m allowed to be in bed and rest”. A less structured SW helps me relax about the whole thing and think less about sleep overall 🙂

I’m glad I’m not the only one who has had meltdowns, Deb. Was the emergency room incident because of a panic attack? I’ve had them in the past and felt the need to go the hospital but thankfully that’s all behind.
My insomnia started in the winter of 2017. This meltdown last week happened after I had been wide awake for 2 hours struggling trying to fall asleep without realizing I was doing it. It had been such a long time I hadn’t experienced an awakening like this, the frustration kept building. At some point I turned on the light, sat up in bed and just broke down crying out of anger, frustration and sadness. Ugh. I think I’ve had just a couple of meltdowns since insomnia started but this one was surprising since it had been probably 1.5 years since my last meltdown and it happened about a week after starting ACT. It makes me wonder if it wasn’t all of the repressed frustration I felt while practicing CBT-I that finally came to surface since I was allowing feelings to come up. What a tough journey this has been..so thankful to ACT for helping uncover and deal with all of the demons that come with insomnia.

[Deb]

My meltdown was because I was desperate for sleep and couldn’t get any relief. I had gone to my doctor for sleeping pills, asking for Ambien because I had taken it years before and it worked for me. But this young whippersnapper wouldn’t give it to me because he said I was too old and could fall down. This was very frustrating because although I am older, I’m in great shape and feel a lot younger. Anyway, the sleeping pills he gave me didn’t work at all. So I could never get a break from my insomnia. I got so crazy that I just wanted someone to hit me over the head and knock me out. Finally at the emergency room they gave me a prescription for Ambien and afterwards, I found an older, more understanding nurse practitioner who gave me a ongoing prescription. I had my last meltdown right after my vacation and just a few days before recommitting myself to ACT and then finally healing. For me it was just the old stuff of struggling with “trying again” to cure my insomnia. You know how it is when you’ve tried so many times and it doesn’t work out. You get so discouraged. That was where I was at. Of course now looking back I realize it was that old devil trying to make me give up just when the victory was right around the corner.

[Author]

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