[Steve]

Deb, it’s a good thing you tried ACT again. I’m not sure I would have done so. I think I might have been happy with the 5 good nights/2 bad nights you were getting. But then I can understand how we all want them to be all good nights as well. I am glad you are cured.

[Steve]

I thought I’d post here and let others give their opinions to me. Since I am no longer keeping a sleep diary, I really have no idea how long I am sleeping. Saturday night I thought I slept fairly well but as the day went on Sunday, I started to drag and became zombiesh. I couldn’t wait to go to bed because of the way I felt. Last night, I increased my SW to 7.5 hours because it was slightly over a week since I adjusted it last. I realized during the night that my sleep is becoming fragmented again and I am no longer getting the 3 to 4 hour deep sleep I was getting when I had a SW of around 6 hours. I know with ACT, we are to accept what sleep we get and to relax in bed when we are awake. We also can stay in bed for the amount of sleep we think we need, which for me pre-insomnia was 8 hours. Last night I woke up at 3:30 and stayed awake until it was time to get up (5:15). I was pretty much relaxed and wasn’t tossing and turning any and in fact, almost nodded off a couple times but quickly jerked myself awake. I accepted that I probably wasn’t going to get any more sleep and so just used my tools to stay relaxed and then let my mind wander, which is how I almost nodded off a couple times. I feel okay this morning and at least so far, a lot better than yesterday. I am going to stay with ACT in terms of tools and all but I am wondering if I should stay with ACT in terms of staying in bed for that 7.5 hours or should I go back to SR and use a much shorter SW of around 5.5 or 6 hours in order to get that deep sleep again? Or will doing that destroy what I have achieved under ACT? Right now, I would say I am taking about 30 to 45 minutes to fall asleep, maybe longer, then sleeping for about an hour to an hour and a half and then waking up and repeating the process. Whatever I end up doing, as long as I am not tossing and turning, I am not doing SC. That added so much stress to my nights it was unbelievable.

Deb – I know what you mean about having a meltdown over disappointment with your sleep. I haven’t had a meltdown yet but I do get really disappointed after trying SR and ACT and it takes so long to work. I know others are in the same boat. That’s why I think it is important for us to share our thoughts on this forum and thank Martin for providing it for us.

[Deb]

Steve – I was wondering when you were using a SW of 5.5 to 6 hours. Was it before ACT? If so, I wouldn’t go back to it because you said that since you started ACT two weeks ago, your sleep has been getting better.

I wonder if your sleep is getting fragmented because there’s some anxiety about increasing your SW. So the anxiety is creating the fragmentation. When I did ACT back in March, I also worried about my light sleep which was fragmented, being in and out of sleep all night. I worried a lot and also thought that maybe I should go back to a smaller SW to deepen my sleep. I know how it is to want to go back to the “security blanket” of something that worked before, even though it’s given you limited success. My worry just fueled the insomnia and it got worse.

This also reminds me of how about when I was about about 5 weeks into CBT-I, I had a really bad week. Up to that point I had been consistently doing well with 5 good nights each week. I think that sometimes we first go through a “honeymoon” period when we start something new and we’re putting so much hope into it. Then reality sinks in and we start to lose confidence. The thing is to keep going. I kept going and then my sleep got better again after that week. So there are always ups and downs with any process. My suggestion is to keep going, doing what you’re doing and to not worry about decreasing your SW. Trust the process, relax and your sleep will start getting better again.

[gsdmom]

Deb and Borgesbi – thanks for posting about your meltdowns. Many years ago I went to urgent care for panic attacks and insomnia during a very stressful time with our business and at the same time had a family member with seizures and surgery going on. About a year ago went to urgent care for Ambien due to an insomnia reaction from a steroid and again having a family member experience a major medical event at the same time of steroid. Both situations were resolved fairly quickly, the first in 3 weeks and the second in 3 days.

However since my insomnia started last March, never had I experienced this kind of physical and emotional meltdown from chronic insomnia. I had several moments when I almost committed myself to a 5150 mental health hold. About the only thing that saved me was finding some mindfulness mediations and listening on the internet. So since Deb mentioned the amygdala in the brain in some posts I googled amygdala and mindfulness since ACT wants you to practice mindfulness.

As many of you already know the amygdala is the fight or flight center of the brain, seat of fearful and anxious emotions. Long term and ongoing stress can make the amygdala larger and more sensitive and this can last long after the stressors are over. There are some studies I’ve read online that state daily mindfulness practice can shrink the amygdala over a period of 8 weeks. The only problem with these articles is that I couldn’t find an exact amount of time the daily practice should be, one study said 27 minutes a day, another said just 5 minutes a day was needed. I’m always curious about the physiology of my body, so for me knowing this practice can actually make physical changes makes me want to be consistent with it. I hope this is helpful for others.

And to be extra encouraging to others reading this and doing ACT, today is the longest time period since March 12th, where I have not taken an Ambien. Today is 9 days Ambien free! I reduced Ambien usage a lot since the beginning of July, and am so happy that the anxiety is becoming less so I don’t think about pills so much anymore. My sleep is still far from perfect, but I’m slowly feeling better.

[Steve]

Deb – Yes, I was using the 5.5 and 6.0 hour SW when I was doing CBT-i. And yes, I agree about there being a honeymoon when you start a program but that goes for ACT as well as CBT-i. I am just getting frustrated I guess because I did make progress in that first week of ACT and now I have run into problems it seems. Part of me does feel better. I seem to have more energy and I’m not as weak in the muscles but other parts, such as concentration and eyestrain/eye muscles seem to be a little worse, if not the same. I will stay the course as total SR/SC was not helping me anymore. But I am not going to increase my SW further right now. I will keep it at 7.0 to 7.5 depending on how tired I am at night. I know I need 8 hours of sleep as that is what I did before insomnia, but I will work my way up to that. Thanks for your encouragement and thoughts Deb. I really appreciate it.

[Steve]

Congratulations gsdmom! That’s quite an accomplishment in itself going that long without pills! You are proof that you really don’t need them. Keep up the good work and hope your sleep really improves soon.

[Featherly]

Questions for the experienced ACT sleepers (anyone beyond the 1st week) … with the encouraging success stories. I,m approaching a week into ACT.

~Please, should I curtail my wake-up time? Some mornings I’m waking/rising an hour past my mental wake up time. Will this lessen my chances for good sleep the next night? Natural morning awakenings are lovely.

~Do you use an am alarm?

~Is it normal/common to feel so achy in body muscles the first week? Even though I’m getting more sleep, I’m tired and O so achy. Can it have something to do with sleep catch-up?, or recovering insomniac symptoms (if there is such a thing)?

I so enjoy the option to read in bed, but darn if I am to sleepy to even open the book.
Thank you So much for any help and it’s so great to hear how you all are fairing.

[Deb]

Feathery – I let myself sleep in in the morning an hour or so a few times if I needed it and it didn’t seem to hurt my sleep that night. It sounds like you’re tired at night since you’re too sleepy to open a book, so I wouldn’t think it would be a problem. Dr. Guy recommends a consistent sleep schedule with some flexibility of plus or minus 30 minutes. I don’t use an alarm because I don’t have to, but I know a lot of folks here have to use one in order to get up on time for work.

I didn’t have any aches so don’t know about that. Sounds like a good question for the sleep doctor. I was tired also until my sleep started to deepen naturally.

[Steve]

Hi featherly. I read your post about your aches and pains and I had a thought on it. With ACT, you are now spending more time in bed but not sleeping for all of that time period. I know in my pre-insomnia days, I sometimes developed aches and pains due to pressure points against the mattress from staying in bed too long. Since you are not in a deep sleep, you could be developing the same thing. Just a thought.

I finally had a deep sleep last night for about 4 hours. Then I woke up around 2:30 and started to stress and toss and turn for two reasons. The first was that I was getting nervous about going back to work after my vacation. I kept calming myself down using the tools but that nervousness kept coming back. I probably won’t have to deal wit that tonight as I will know that nothing bad happened from my return to work today. The second reason was that I think I told you in my e-mail that I had to take the day off to wait for the telephone repairman. Well, he never came so I have to call them up today and try to resolve the issue as I can’t take another day off from work for this. I suspect that will resolve itself tonight as well. Sometimes, even though we use the tools, the stress keeps coming back.

How is your sleep doing? Are you sleeping longer? Are you keeping a sleep diary? How long are you sleeping now compared to when you were doing SR?

[Deb]

Just as I told Steve about honeymoon periods, ironically I think my own honeymoon is over. This week some fears have been creeping in. The last couple nights some worries about the insomnia returning came in when I went to bed. I figure this is normal though. I think that the last two weeks I was just so overjoyed to be free of insomnia, that any anxiety I had was pushed far away onto the back burner. But this week they’re on the front burner, at least when I go to bed. My mind was restless and I couldn’t sleep for an hour or so, and knew I had to get up to calm myself. I wrote in my journal both times which always helps. I realized that a part of me just wants to push away all the fears and forget the whole nightmare. But I knew that I had to face the fears and just accept them. When I did that, I calmed down and then went back to bed. I had no problem falling asleep and slept fine both nights.

[Steve]

Glad to hear it Deb. By the way, are you still on your anti-depressants? Are you going to quit them soon?

[Deb]

I was going to go off them soon, but I think I’ll take them for another month or two until I’m sure that I’m completely relaxed and confident about my sleeping.

[Steve]

I don’t blame you. Going off of them could cause rebound insomnia so it’s better to make sure you are sleeping well.

[burn]

My road to recovery is bumpy, although the sleep was definitely better for the last two weeks, when I committed to ACT.
To maintain accepting state, I just prefer to think that I am in prolonged recovery process. Even if my sleep will be cured in few months (for instance), after that I will still try to think that I am on asymptotic recovery curve: 1) yes my sleep is getting better, I am approaching my pre-insomnia state, 2) poor nights are still possible, however I am in a journey for recovery, which is healing by itself even if I am not at final destination yet.

I think this line of thinking may help to maintain accepting attitude for longer until sleep is solid and super consistent.

[Deb]

That sounds like a great attitude to have, Nik.

Just wondering, how long have you had your insomnia?

[Author]

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