[burn]

Karen,

How did you like specifically their falling asleep meditations (in 10%app)? Are they helping you?

[Deb]

Steve – just a thought. I’m wondering if when you wake up you’re using the tools to “try to go to sleep.” In other words, you are “struggling” to go to sleep. This happened to me a lot and then I would “catch myself in the act” of “struggling,” laugh at myself and then let the struggle go and get myself back to the place of “acceptance.” It’s so easy to slip back into struggling without even realizing it. Struggling will just keep you awake even if you are using tools. Accepting is key.

[Steve]

Deb – Possibly but I don’t think so. I do have some anxiety when I wake up and there is the concern about how I will feel the next day but the tools make most of this go away pretty quick. Then I just lay there and let my mind wander Sometimes I direct it into an area where I had some pleasure, like a recent motorcycle ride. But after I do that, then I let my mind wander again. As long as I don’t have any uncomfortable thoughts, I continue to lay there and just drift. I do notice that the longer I lay there, the less chance I have of falling back to sleep. Now THAT could be my problem as I might be setting myself up for failure if I don’t fall back to sleep quickly. It’s just going to take time. Tonight will be the end of my 3rd week on ACT and I know it can take two to three months before I see improvement. I am going back to Meadows book frequently to brush up on techniques as he gives different ways to accept and welcome troubling thoughts and sensations.

[Borgesbi]

Thank you so much, Deb. You’re right, I’ll be careful not to start worrying about this. I feel like the same thing happens to me as it does to Steve. The longer I lay there, the less likely it becomes to fall back asleep. I haven’t felt anxiety in a while though. For example, last night I was pretty calm but just laid there for several hours awake and calm – some mild frustration did show up at times. I think sometimes we’re not necessarily anxious, but we’re consciously or unconsciously monitoring what’s happening and that keeps us awake? I remember Martin mentioning something like this. Possibly what happened to me last night; the monitoring is subtle so it’s hard to catch it but seems to bring quite a state of alertness.

[burn]

Karen,

Could you please briefly describe your journey with CBTI and ACT? It seems from the older posts that you were strict CBTI proponent and got disappointed with ACT, but you seem to incorporate ACT now. Could you describe this journey in one post?

[Steve]

Borgesbi – Yes, we are alike. I can lay there for a couple hours quite calm and not fall back to sleep. It could be because we are subconsciously monitoring ourselves. It will just take time to break that. It certainly can’t be because my sleep drive is low as if it was, I wouldn’t be so tired the next day.

[Deb]

Just a reminder that if you have any questions about ACT that now is the time to list them here so Nik can bring them to the sleep doctor this week.

[KarenP]

Burn- I like several of the sleep meditations, specifically one that talks about when you go to bed, lay down and picture falling asleep, and “breathe like you do when you sleep”. I’ve done this and it really relaxes me. I actually do one 15 minute meditation a day, not when I sleep. The app actually has a timer to remind you to meditate. I especially like the Joseph Goldstein ones. I’ve been doing this since May and the difference with my anxiety has been incredible. I’m attempting “be in the present moment” and not get carried away by my thoughts. This is just what I needed for my insomnia. Doesn’t it sound a lot like Dr. Guy?

[Borgesbi]

Steve, that’s exactly what I think is happening to us. If not that, then an automatic association of the brain with wakefulness in the evening because it has learned to do that in the past and we’re still breaking the association.
The patience required to just lie there for several hours without falling back asleep is no joke. When I get light sleep I don’t mind as much because at least time seems to go by faster. When I’m completely alert, being in quiet wakefulness for more than an hour is tough! I don’t think I have yet welcomed the frustration and struggle I feel from not falling back asleep after an awakening. I think this one will be more challenging.

[Borgesbi]

Hi Nik! Ok to ask the sleep doctor about activities in bed? Should we restrict just a little, or for the most part?
When are you scheduled to talk to her?

[burn]

Borgesbi,

I will ask, but I just assume we should follow the book: light relaxing activities are ok, better not to use devices because of light the produce. I am interested though if blue light filters remove these concerns. I will ask about that.

Not sure if I can ask question about aches (posted earlier) because I didn’t experienced them and may not be able to describe them. If someone can post good description of those aches, I will try to ask.

I will ask about sleep restriction.

I talk to her on Thursday morning.

[Steve]

Deb – I have a question for you as to how you approached bedtime this last time that you started ACT. Please read it carefully as this is very important to me. When you went to bed, did you say to yourself that you were only going to rest and that you would accept whatever sleep you got? Or did you look forward to going to bed in anticipation of getting a good night’s sleep that night? OR, was it a combination of the two? You went to bed in anticipation of getting a good night’s sleep but if you didn’t, you would accept any sleep you got? I ask this because I am more of that last statement. I go to bed in high spirits because I feel I am going to get a good night’s sleep that night but if I don’t, I can accept what I get. I wonder if by embracing that last statement I am somehow not accepting my insomnia? I do feel as if I am going to break the insomnia soon but I don’t know if being that positive is hurting my sleep.

[burn]

Karen, yes it sounds similar to Guy Meadows (be in the moment).

However, idea of sleep meditations always confused me. Dr. Meadows just asks you to go to bed and be relaxed, but sleep meditations want you to do some mental efforts (breath this way, imagine this, count backwards etc)

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by burn.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Martin Reed.

[burn]

Question about lying awake calm for hours is another good question for Sleep Doctor.
I personally think it is little of everything: past experience, self-monitoring, inability to relax 100%.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by burn.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Martin Reed.

[KarenP]

Burn- that’s why I do the sleep meditations in the day if I do them. Mostly, I do the other mindfulness meditations. I just do what Dr. Guy says at night. Just relax.

[Author]

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