[burn]

Karen,

Thank you for response. Just make sure I got it right, do you do their “falling asleep” meditations during the day?
Just curious. Thank you.

[KarenP]

Burn- yes. Sometimes I will listen to them. There are many available. They have meditations for anger, grief, anxiety etc. Walking meditations. Eating meditations. Tons of ways to be more mindful. I think doing this since May has helped mindfulness become more of a habit, which had helped with my sleep.

[burn]

Karen,

It’s great to hear that. Yes, mindfulness is a skill to develop, not a trick to fall asleep. Looks like you had a great progress in it. I hope to develop it too.

If I may to ask. What are your thoughts on SC vs ACT? In your opinion, would you make it to where your are now (not cured, but doing better) if you started with mindfulness right away, skipping SC? Since, this topic is currently rather about ACT than sleep restriction, your opinion would be interesting to hear. Thank you.

[Steve]

Burn – Could you ask the doctor another question for me? According to the Meadows book, we are supposed to go to bed in a relaxed and accepting manner as to whatever sleep we get. But what if we are in a very positive mood that we will sleep well that night and also that our insomnia will soon be over with? Is that positive thinking detrimental to us in case we don’t sleep well that night and we become disappointed and discouraged? Should we not go to bed in a positive mood? It may sound stupid but sometimes I think I sabotage myself by being in such a positive mood when I go to bed at night. Hopefully, you can ask her if we should tone down our emotions.

By the way, you said you talk to her Thursday morning. What time zone are you in? Thanks again.

[burn]

I will try to ask that question too. I have a list of question and I only have one hour so far.
It is my personal opinion, that we should go to bed relaxed with a bit of positive note and expect rest/sleep. If sleep is not coming, I think the key to stay FULLY calm regarding that and over time stable natural sleep should come. I would expect the answer like that, but I will ask the question if time permits.
In fact if we think about it in biological terms, sleep is a natural phenomenon that does not need control. If you we are calm and sleepy state in our beds (like we were before insomnia) night after night after night after night then sleep has no choice to start coming on regular basis. Mindfulness and being in present moment should allow to develop this accepting calmness and ease to being awake, and after that it shouldn’t matter that much what we expect in bed, as long as we expect to be fully relaxed. That is easier said than done of course.
I am in Pacific time zone.

[KarenP]

Burn-
I started CBT-I in February, a 6 week online course with no real support. It was a start, but it was nowhere near as good as Martin’s course. Martin’s personal follow up was invaluable. I made great progress with SR and SC.

Prior to CBT-I, I had started forming really bad habits- going to bed early and spending too much time in bed. Martin taught me so much through his course. I still stick to a sleep window to minimize undo time in bed. I want to be sleepy when I go to bed, so I guess you can say I’m doing a hybrid. I have stopped getting out of bed if I can’t sleep, using my mindfulness tools. Welcoming anxiety etc. The App meditations have helped me to fight anxiety during day and at night. I “note” the emotion, thought or sensation and it subsides. I still do my wind down etc., don’t do anything in bed but sleep etc. I’m not confident enough in my success yet to throw SR out the window. I’m just happy to practice ACT in bed during my sleep window. I’ve only been doing ACT 3 weeks now, but I am very hopeful!

[Mac0908]

Hi everyone. Looking for some serious support today. I feel as if I have fallen down another hole of a relapse and though I know I will come out of it as I have many times before, I am just so very upset. It’s been 8 months now since I came to these forums and began really trying to fix my Insomnia once and for all, and as much as I’ve improved (I really have), it still sickens me to know that i’m still sitting here 8 months later a complete zombie.

In a nutshell… I was doing better, perhaps better than I ever have. While I promised to always give updates every once in a while and still do, I even UNSUBSCRIBED to this thread at one point about a month ago. I was in a phase of doing so well which was probably close to a month of decent sleep. Then around 2 weeks ago I had a case of ‘special event insomnia’ that gave me my first flat out bad night in quite some time. What happened was this was a bit of a trigger. Fast forward a week later and I had another special event the next day and wouldn’t you know it, a BAD night again. But what went from only dealing with special event insomnia has now spiraled into falling right back into general insomnia.

Finally yesterday after an entire week of bad/poor nights I hit rockbottom so to speak and reverted back to my old sleep window of 11:30p-6a. Last night I slept around 6 hours of that timeframe but I still feel absolutely shot today. A month ago I was going to bed at 10:30p and sleeping through to my alarm! My sleep anxiety was gone. Never again did I think I’d be writing a post like this. Only had visions of coming back to write a success story to you guys. To Deb, Steve, Delv, etc. But now here I am, back in a hole, and quite frankly, even though I know i’ll come out of it, i’m just shocked. Shocked and scared to think that this cycle may never ever, ever end.

Steve I see that you are doing a lot better these days. That is so great to read. Perhaps we can turn the tables just this once and you can give me a pep talk. Deb, I know you said you still see some anxiousness in my posts even recently, and its true that even during my good run I had some underlying anxiety but I promise you I am night and day compared to when we first stared talking back in January.

[Steve]

Hey Mac. Sorry to hear you fell back into the insomnia pit. Of course you will come out of it again. Just go back to what you were continuously doing and keep at it as you know it worked for you before. It will work again. You know how to break the cycle. Are you doing SC as well as SR? Even though you got 6 hours of sleep, it still might not have been “good” sleep and that is why you feel lousy today. Somehow, you have to figure out how to address the special event insomnia triggers and you can stay out of the cycle for good.

[Steve]

Well gsdmom. I think I am doing what Deb warned you about yesterday and that is worrying about sleeping in the bed again. Last night was rough for me. I fell asleep okay but only for about an hour. Then I thought I would never fall back to sleep but after about two hours, I did fall back asleep but only for about 2 hours at the most. Then I was awake for the rest of the night. The odd thing is when I woke up both times last night, I was really relaxed and didn’t have to use the tools much. But I still couldn’t get back to sleep. I am now wondering if I am afraid of the bed again. I feel relaxed while I am lying there but I am starting to wonder how I will sleep at night as bed time approaches and I know that isn’t good. I try to be accepting of whatever sleep I get and as I said, I am relaxed in bed, but it does get frustrating when I almost keep nodding off but don’t actually fall asleep. You would think that my built up sleep drive would help me sleep longer but this is my second bad night in a row. This is actually the same thing that happened with SR. I started fast but then slowed down even faster. I think the “honeymoon” period Deb was talking about with ACT might be over for me. I am very interested in what the doctor tells Burn about mixing SR and ACT because I am thinking about cutting my time in bed from 7 hours to 6 hours. Are you still sleeping good every other night?

[Mac0908]

Thanks Steve, I appreciate that so much. Even just a little bit of conversation helps me. It has many times throughout this year. Yes it was a rather poor 6 hours last night. Crashed out around 11:30p and woke around 5:15a I’d say. Again this was my first night reverting back to SR so the anxious thoughts were a little more relevant as 10:30p and 11p passed me by while watching TV. As the days pass, that feeling will go away and 11:30p will feel normal again. Its as if I’ve seen this same movie 20,000 times and I always know what will happen. I know all the in’s and out’s of insomnia now. I know that once back in a pit of a bad phase there is no overnight cure. It takes at least a solid week to start coming out of it. With regards to SC, if by that you mean getting out of bed if I can’t sleep, then no, because that is no longer an issue for me. I’m usually out within 20-25 minutes of going to bed and when I DO wake up too early, I typically do fall back asleep, however the problem is that it’s a broken/light sleep that leaves me feeling unrefreshed when I finally wake up for good at 6am.

[gsdmom]

Hi Steve – I’ve had an issue like Mac0908, getting upset about events, they really throw me off. Overall I’d say I am still sleeping good every other night, my issues were not really the fear of my bed, it is what that is laying next to me in bed that bothers me! To heal, I am trying not to schedule any unnecessary events that would cause anxiety, and made the job search less intense. Just before insomnia I repainted my bedroom, bought new sheets and bedspread, pillows, and I’ve had a memory foam topper to help with sore joints, I find it an overall welcoming place. I know when you have insomnia, changing your bedroom might be considered a “prop” and I know you don’t want to engage in too many “props”, but just wondering if making some small changes to the bedroom may reduce your fear and make it more welcoming?

Two days ago I was feeling so peaceful and hanging with my adult daughter in the kitchen, then I turned to speak to her and she was in this unnatural position, fell on the table and then onto the floor. She had a seizure, she had them all the time as a child, but its been 19 years since the last one, and although she snapped out of it OK, she cut her head and so had to take her to urgent care for a staple to close a wound. That threw off our dinner schedule, ending up eating late, and just throwing off my schedule and this event brought me back into to not being able to fall asleep for hours. I ended up taking a little ambien just so I could sleep at least 2 hours, I didn’t want to be a mess if my daughter was not well. Last night it took 2 hours to fall asleep, but I feel OK since I probably slept 6 hours. It is so difficult not to overthink in bed and use the tools to fall asleep too intensely. I have an interview next week I hope won’t cause more onset insomnia. I know the seizure event would throw anybody off, so I’m not considering my sleeplessness a failure for that one. I’ll see how the next week goes to see if the interview affects me.

Steve, you sometimes mention feeling dizzy when you don’t get enough sleep, that is so concerning. I know this might sound bizarre, but I was wondering if it might be related to gluten sensitivity? I’ve been gluten-free for 5 years. Gluten caused me to have more neurological symptoms than GI issues. Brain fog, headaches, probably anxiety, and a little GI bloating. Except for this period of insomnia, I have felt great by cutting out gluten…just a thought for you. I’m sorry you’ve had two bad nights in a row and hope tonight the sleep drive will really kick in and you fall into peaceful sleep for several hours.

[Mac0908]

Has nothing to do with gluten imo. I too have experienced the (albeit rare) days of actually feeling so sleep deprived that dizziness happens. Steve knows I’m sure, after much trial and error, that this comes down to anxiety like nothing else. There’s a reason that on nights when I feel great and cheery and well that I sleep better, and on nights when I worry, after a more stressful day perhaps, that I seem to struggle more. I’m sorry about your daughter, that is rough, but I feel like anyone would have a problem sleeping after a traumatic event such as that.

[burn]

Gsdmom,

I am in the same pattern now, every other night is good. Every another night only brings little bit of light sleep, even if I am calm, completely relaxed and sleepy. It will be one of my major questions for sleep doctor tomorrow: is there a risk of training the brain to be awake if I continue with this pattern (as argued by CBTI proponents). Earlier this summer this pattern threw me off ACT and I started to worry whether I should go with SR instead and these worries certainly didn’t help back then. I feel glad, that tomorrow I can discuss this pattern with a specialist.

[Steve]

Thanks for the suggestion gsdmom but I have to agree with Mac that this isn’t gluten related. All of this started right after I got the insomnia and the insomnia was definitely stress related. Thanks for the input though. I talked to a friend today and she put me straight that being afraid about entering the bedroom at night is an unwelcome thought that can be addressed by ACT. While I am not totally afraid of the bedroom yet, let’s just say that gsdmom’s question and Deb’s response put the thought in my mind and I will need to address it. I am going to decrease my SW by a half hour tonight and I am very much interested when Burn asks the Sleep Doctor tomorrow about mixing SR with ACT. Especially mixing SW with ACT.I feel a bit zombieish today but I know it could be worse and I am surviving. Just have to keep using the tools. But I am concerned that ACT is turning out to be like CBT-i where I would get one or two good nights followed by three or four bad nights. Again, need to practice the mindfulness. I let the unwelcome thoughts linger in my mind way longer than I should before I remember to use mindfulness in order to get rid of them.

[Mac0908]

I remember those afraid of the bedroom days. I’d walk in there like a criminal walking to the electric chair let me tell you. Long gone now are those days, yet here I still am!

[Author]

Posts