[burn]

One of the things she said I really need to do is to actually write down night time thoughts that are coming. It is recommended in the book, but I thought I knew my night time visitors well enough: anxiety in the form of muscle tension and beating heart and the thought about when will my insomnia end. After talking to her I am writing down thoughts and urges (together) which I actually missed. Perhaps previously they were masked by anxiety and since it is now reduced, these visitors are now unmasked:

turn on the other side – I know this one for a while actually, but I came to realize that I still believe this urge more often than necessary.

relaxation; am I relaxed enough? is my arm relaxed enough for sleep to come? is my leg relaxed enough for sleep to come – I do often buy into these urges and thoughts

urge/thought to focus attention on something if no thoughts are coming and mind does not wander

thought that no thoughts are coming – after this one urge to focus on something follows

anticipation of sleep to come – I thought it is ok to wait for sleep to come, if I don’t actually apply any sleep effort, but it is just another urge/thought, that needs to be acknowledged

after catching a thought “should I really have interrupted that thought? it was a good thought”, then some overthinking follows

excessive focus on pillow sensation, too much tethering to present moment to the point of keeping mind too tense for sleep.

active release of desire for sleep – in the night I was trying to unfocus from sleep and to come to the present moment too actively. Hence, I am applying effort instead of simply noticing my anticipation/desire for sleep to come. That active rejection of sleep anticipation is also not helpful.

I am trying to understand how do I feel desire for sleep. Perhaps, without sleep effort (excessive focus on pillow touch) it is only sleep anticipation that’s left and I just need to recognize and acknowledge it properly.

Any comments guys?

[Steve]

Could you explain what you mean by “turn on the other side”? Do you mean turning your body on your other side too many times?

There seems to be a lot of things to remember here. No wonder it’s so hard.

[burn]

Just went over past night and doubled the length of the thoughts/urges list

[burn]

Yep, classical tossing and turning. I started acknowledging this one a while ago already when first thing ACT, but still buying into it occasionally.

[Steve]

Burn – what did you mean by “turn on other side”?

That active rejection of sleep anticipation probably answers our question of should we go to bed thinking positively.

[burn]

Turn on the other side = tossing and turning

[Featherly]

Wow! Very helpful! Especially to be positive about sleep in words and thoughts, even if I’m lying. I also tend to be an over-thinker at night when I don’t have the visual or auditory senses and turn inward… My day time mindfulness is pleasant with taking in what’s happening that moment through all the 5 senses. At night, I’m going to watch for effort, and just letting go, and ‘being’. Do you write down those night time thoughts the next morning? If I had to do that it would keep me awake trying to remember them. If I tried to do it at night it would be to arousing. Not sure I want to do that one.
I think of the urge to turn over while in bed and awake, is a form of resistance to a thought or feeling. Turning over is trying to reset the mind instead of accepting what is going on there. I’m going to try and be aware, when I have that urge, to see what I’m thinking/feeling. Then observing/welcoming/accepting it.
I’m on my 2nd week of ACT and I’ve been meeting my sleep fears face to face. I have a way to go before full acceptance, since I welcome them begrudgingly with effort. (Who wants to welcome being up in the middle of the night?!). But maybe I can lie 🙂 Perhaps Fake it until you make can apply!?!
Ellen

[Deb]

Nik – when I “accepted” whatever happened, then I gave up having any expectations of sleeping and just told myself that I was “resting.” Then my mind would just start to wander and there was no effort to do anything. I did nothing. Just like before the insomnia. Sometimes hours could go by but if someone were to ask me what I had been thinking about during all that time I couldn’t remember because it was all random thoughts.

What was going on in your mind in bed before falling asleep when you didn’t have insomnia?

Maybe you need to remember first how to “rest.” How about trying an experiment during the daytime. When you’re feeling tired, close your eyes and just rest for a half hour with no expectations of sleep but just to get a little rest. When you know what this feels like then you could apply it at night.

[burn]

Deb, thank you.

In fact I was doing this exercise today several times for couple minutes. I indeed need to re-learn to let my mind loose.

I also remembered why I started focusing on something, like a pillow, during the nights. When I was trying ACT earlier and letting me mind be more free at night I was having very strange hypnotic nights. I wonder if those nights would turn into deep sleep nights, if I persisted. Anyway, I need to re-learn to relax my mind and not just my body and not overdo staying in the moment.

Thanks for watching over us, Deb.

[Steve]

Featherly – The book says to write out the list during the day since normal sleepers don’t write out long lists of their thoughts during the night. Don’t try to remember them at night as that will keep you awake for sure. Just write down what you can come up with during the day. The book also says to keep it near you to remind you that you are separate from those thoughts. I am on 3 and a half weeks of ACT now. In some ways I am better than just being on SR and SC but I don’t think I am worse in any way. That’s a plus.

[Steve]

Deb – That’s a good exercise. Thanks for sharing it. Sometimes I have trouble letting my mind let go and wander but mostly I can just lie there and go into rest mode and my mind will drift.

Burn – Thanks again for sharing with us what the doctor told you. I think a lot of us learned something and implemented some of it last night. It took me awhile but I drifted off to sleep for about 3 hours and when I woke up, I was ready to accept that that was all the sleep I was going to get last night. However, after adding a couple of the unwelcome thoughts that you mentioned yesterday, I was able to drift off to sleep for about another hour and a half. I was awake from 4:00 to 5:15 and just lay there and rested. During that time, I started using the tools again and almost got back to sleep a couple of times. I was watching the last pre-season football game last night so I didn’t get to bed until around 10:15, which gave me about a 7.0 hour sleep window (although I know I probably only slept for 4 to 4.5 hours of it) but I think I am going to do what the doctor said and forget about SR and go back to going to bed when I did before I got insomnia, which was 7.5 to 8.0 hours SW. I am hoping now that I get to sleep again, to fill up that window with mostly sleep.

[burn]

I wanted to say that people that are trying to implement ACT, and not getting results, should book a session with Dr Katharina Lederle from the sleep school. She is great! I was going to ask her some more of questions that I prepared in advance, but instead we went deep into my particular case, trying to figure out what it is exactly that holds me awake. Katharina is amazing, she listens carefully and asks the right questions to figure out what exactly is person’s particular sleep issue. In my case it is not anxiety anymore, it is too much focus on staying calm and feeling sensations. I could figure it out myself eventually by reading the book over an over again, but I think I might give up on ACT earlier. While not learning anything new about ACT and mindfulness during the session, I learned what I am doing wrong when using them. ACT is easy and difficult at the same time, it’s a bit tricky. You really need to learn to recognize what is going in the present moment. I found that I still need to do more work on recognition.

[Steve]

Burn – How much does it cost? Are you going to do another session or are you going to wait and work on the suggestions she gave you in this session? When you book the session, do you have a list of times to choose from? What time was your session in PST time? What was that time for her? I am thinking I can maybe get an interpreter to do this with me to help with what I miss due to my hearing impairment.

[Steve]

Burn – One other question. When you say you need to do more work on recognition, what do you need to recognize more? Unwelcome thoughts, feelings and urges?

[burn]

It’s 150 gbp (~$183). She’s is in London, so the sessions are scheduled within their work time. For me the choices were from 12 am to 10am in my local time, (Pacific time zone). I chose 8am, it was 4 pm in London. For booking, I simply followed the link in their app, and there you can see availability schedule. I think she is only available on Thursdays in September.
I won’t schedule anything for now, since I need to work on what she suggested for a while.

[Author]

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