[Deb]

I want to thank Martin as well for letting us share here. Thanks for changing the name of the thread as well. I worked with Martin twice and both times he gave wonderful help. Also, when I decided to try ACT again, it was because I had the safety net of knowing I could always come back to CBT if I needed to, that helped me to go out on the limb again with ACT. I actually wrote Dr. Guy an email suggesting he start a forum on his website. I said how I was frustrated with the lack of support for ACT through his organization. Talking to a therapist every 2 or 3 weeks was just not enough! (And expensive!) Just like we talk to each other here every day to get support, ideally we could do this through his website. That day to day support, like Martin gives to his clients, is what is really needed for ACT.

Daf – It’s so good to hear from you and to know that you’re much better! Congratulations on 12 weeks of good sleep! It sounds like you also learned to accept your insomnia and let go of obsessing about how to fix it.

[burn]

Not long ago I was asked to give a feedback on sleep school app experience. The major theme of my feedback was lack of forum where people could discuss ACT experience and issues. I indicated multiple times in my feedback that lack of community and platform for discussing ACT experience likely turns away many people who try ACT, don’t understand it completely and abandon it. It might be me, turning away from ACT, if I didn’t witness Deb’s positive experience and got moral support here. Thank you all for your support.
I suggested in my feedback to sleep school that they may want to increase app subscription rate to cover the costs of forum development and maintenance and perhaps cost of having a specialist who comminates with the patients on forum on daily basis. I even think that I should drop the same message into Dr Lederle Skype.

[Deb]

In my email I also cc’d Dr. Kat and a person who I thought was their marketing person. I told them how I had heard about others (here) who had tried ACT before but had given up and that they are losing all these people because of lack of support. People get inspired when they read the book, but then when they practice it they get confused like I did and give up. It’s a lot more “tricky” than CBT and so the day to day support is really needed.

[Deb]

Nik – one thought regarding paradoxical intention. I hope you now don’t go and “try to not go to sleep” intentionally. That won’t work. Just accept what is and relax. By the way, have you tried taking some 20-30 minute “rests” and if so, is that giving you a idea of what complete relaxation feels like?

[burn]

I don’t do paradoxical intention. Today I just went to bed with intention to rest till morning while leaving sleep an optional possiblity. I got some sleep, I think it was mostly light, but I feel surprisingly good today. I will need to work on my intention every evening before bed to keep relaxed attitude toward being awake. But I must say it was so pleasant to lie in bed awake when I was able to remove a performance pressure to sleep. In fact it seems to me that I didn’t sleep much today partially because of sight euphoria after catching this relaxed attitude of being awake in bed.

[Deb]

Good. That’s what happened to me too – I got surprising enough sleep most of the days even though it was light or just a couple hours in the early mornings. What’s sight euphoria?

[burn]

Slight euphoria.
I often type from my phone, when posting here and I don’t always catch my typos, as I am sure everyone has already noticed 🙂

[Steve]

Hi Deb – I did try your 30 minute “Learn to relax” technique over the weekend. I guess I was too relaxed because I kept falling to sleep for a couple minutes.

Another question for you. As I said, I do understand your “acceptance” as being willing to not sleep this night and the next night and the next. That’s probably the best definition of acceptance that you gave me and it helps me a lot. But did you also maintain a positive mood that ACT would work eventually or didn’t that concern you in practicing Acceptance?

[Deb]

LOL! I thought maybe you were euphoric from “seeing” yourself laying there relaxed!

Yay! that the naps are putting you to sleep!

[Deb]

I did maintain a hopeful attitude that ACT would work in the long run. I gave myself 2 weeks to try it out, to tell you the truth. If I didn’t see any results within that time I was going to go back to CBT. Of course in my case I saw BIG results. But the most important thing is to notice ANY improvement, not just big changes. I just got lucky and was cured within that time.

[Deb]

Of course it wasn’t just luck. I learned how to practice ACT back in March when I did it the first time. So the second time around I barely had to use any of the tools except to “press the acceptance button.”

[delv-x]

Hello all, (Deb, Daf, Mac, Steve)

I put this thread to the back burner for awhile. For 2+ months I was off any sleep aid especially Zopiclone. I was going to bed when I felt like but almost always within a reasonable time (11-1am). On weekdays waking up roughly when I wanted (7am). Some days 5-10 minutes earlier, sometimes the alarm would wake me up. Weekends would be 7am but sometimes a little later if my body naturally wanted to. I stopped logging my sleep completely. I would watch TV in bed on occasion for 5-30 minutes and turn it off and go to sleep. I would take a nap here and there for 20-60 minutes if my body felt like it. I would have a glass of wine or a beer or for dinner and not worry about it. I went to Greece for 2 weeks and even though I was jet lagged and sleep was an issue as expected, within 2 days I was already getting into the groove. On vacation I would wake up anywhere between 7am and 10am. I returned from vacation and things were still good. I felt normal!. Sure I would have worries about sleep but they quickly faded while laying and relaxing. If I wake up in the middle of the night I would be able to fall back within minutes or maybe 20 minutes without frustration. The most encouraging thing was being able to sleep night after night without sleep aids! Knowing my body is able to sleep like before without any help is encouraging.

I knew there would be bad nights. I mean we all do even the best of us. I’ve been able to cope with poorer nights by not making a big deal and I’ve able to deal with it before. This last Monday I had a bit of issues but again, not anything too bad. Last night however, I felt anxiety creeping in as night got closer. Going to bed I felt too restless, anxious and not sleepy. I did sleep but it was very light, broken and my mind was just all over the place unable to calm down.

As usual, I have no idea what sparked it and hope I don’t spiral out that it stretches for days/weeks. Although I am not very sleepy today, I feel wired, edgy, spacey, less appetite. Feels uncomfortable and crappy. 🙁

[Deb]

Hi Delv – So good to hear from you! I was just thinking about you and wondering how you were doing. I’m glad that you’ve had a couple good months. Sorry for the bad night, but I think if you can let it go and not worry about it, you’ll get right back on track.

I don’t know if you’ve been following this thread or not but the people on this thread have switched to ACT. In May and June I had done another round of CBT only to get frustrated again with 2 bad nights out of every week. So I decided to give ACT another try, this time with the help of Dr. Kat from Guy Meadows’ clinic. After several stops and starts and using sleeping pills when I would give up, I finally stuck with it and was cured of insomnia within 2 weeks. I am now insomnia free for 4 weeks. Because of my success, others decided to give it a try as well and are getting better.

You may want to read over the posts to see how others are practicing the ACT tools to calm themselves. ACT deals directly with anxiety and learning how to relax and get back to the state where sleep just comes naturally. It sounds like you’ve been experiencing this for a couple months, but there’s still some anxiety underneath the surface. I think these tools for calming anxiety would be helpful to you. With ACT there really aren’t the rules like only using the bed for sleep, only going to bed when sleepy, etc. The emphasis is on learning to relax and not worrying about these types of things. Then we fall asleep naturally, just like we did before the insomnia. We’re all supporting each other here so please ask any questions you may have and everyone is very willing to chime in and help.

[delv-x]

Hi Deb! Good to hear from you!

Generally I’ve been doing well. Vacation was fabulous and much needed. Been out and about enjoying summer while it lasts. I am trying to let the current negative/stressful thoughts go. I was good at not worrying about it. If I wake up in the middle of the night, I would get up, go pee and then lay back in bed and sure enough in time I would fall back asleep. Most nights I would have a small thought about having poor sleep but even that wouldn’t ruin the night and I would fall asleep and stay asleep.

I am trying to avoid going back on pills because I know I was and can sleep without them. I just find learning how to relax should be done more out of bed rather in bed. In bed I should already be relaxed. What I found happened was yesterday I felt more edgy during the day and then within a few minutes of being in bed I was quite anxious and I was in bed for hours before falling asleep for what may have been an hour.

I know sleep is natural! It’s just much more difficult to achieve when you are wide awake, wired and knowing the longer you spend in bed, the more frustration that builds. But I guess with ACT, you learn to accept it?

[Deb]

Yes, you learn to accept the sleeplessness. For myself, if I was too worked up, I would get up and calm myself and get myself back to the place of acceptance and then go back to bed. The other tools will help calm the anxiety so that you can get back to that place.

[Author]

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