[burn]

Yes, Deb, that’s exactly how it feels for me on the nights when I am able to be willing to be awake. Sleep just comes so fast and easy like insomnia never happened! And that sabotages me on a next night! Because I know that sleep is within reach and sleep anticipation kicks in, then attempts to let it go follow, then overthinking.

Experiments of the last few nights came at a price of very little sleep, but they were useful. I was trying to understand why I couldn’t sleep on many nights even when anxiety was close to zero (in fact daytime and nighttime anxiety was at minimal level recently). Now I learnt that sleep effort is my default behavior in bed and I think it sabotages me the most.

[burn]

And Deb,

I did that exercise that you recommended: to lie and rest during daytime to feel what it feels like just to rest. I caught myself applying sleep effort even then! This behavior this attempt to sleep when eyes are closed, is so, so engrained now after months of insomnia. I need to mindfully bring myself away from this behavior every night.

[KarenP]

So glad everyone is checking in. I’m in my 8th week of 5- 8 hours of sleep with one bad night. I’m using a rough 8 hour sleep window. No SC. My poor night of 1 hour sleep was night before a biopsy. ( which turned out negative). Thankfully I was able to recover from that poor night. I welcomed anxiety the next few nights. After realizing that I was working too hard breathing and welcoming, I finally just tried to do what is described on page 167 in the book, what normal sleepers do. I was afraid to allow my brain to gently wander. If I started going down a rabbit hole on a thought, I would mindfully bring myself back. I was overdoing welcoming and breathing. ( I have a tendency to be a perfectionist!). When a 5 hour night comes up, I try to focus on the rest I am getting, and the realization that I’m probably getting light sleep. Getting ready for a 10 day road trip. Bringing my book with me, also planning on practicing mindfulness every day! God bless you all.

[Steve]

I don’t want to jinx myself but I got a very good sleep last night. Probably the best I had since I came down with insomnia almost a year ago. I know it was over 7 hours and the result is that I can concentrate and focus better although I am not “100% back to normal”. And I don’t expect to be after only one good night. The big key was being able to get back to sleep after I woke up at 2:30 in the morning and staying asleep until about 10 minutes before my alarm rang. I am not getting too excited because I know I can relapse but I also know that I can sleep for over 7 hours. Haven’t done that in over a year. The big thing for me though is that I didn’t go to bed overly tired but rather like I normally feel. Only had 3 wake-ups and the last one was 10 minutes before my alarm rang. The other two wake-ups were to use the bathroom and I fell asleep soon after I came back to bed. So all in all, a good sleep.

Deb – I have a question for you. I l know everyone is different but how many successive nights of good sleep did it take you to feel “normal” again? I ask because I still am a little tired and still have a little dizzyness. In other aspects though like brain fog and ability to concentrate, I am doing really well.

[Deb]

Steve – Glad you had a great night! Glad you’re doing well, too, Karen. Did you do anything different last night, Steve?

For myself, after the 2 weeks of ACT I was sleeping well consistently. I was very lucky in that way.

[Deb]

Since I was sleeping well continuously, I felt normal and had no other sleep related problems. Of course, that little bit of fear of it coming back was in the background.

[Steve]

Deb – I stopped thinking that my insomnia was going to end soon. I just went to bed without any expectations and let my mind go it’s own way. When I came back to bed after a bathroom break, I again just let my mind wander until I fell asleep.

That was my question though. I know you started sleeping continuously but about how many nights of continuous good sleep did it take you to feel normal and really refreshed again? I was thinking it couldn’t have been one or two nights as your body had to recover. But then again, maybe you were quick to recover, too. I was just curious as after that one good night, I still am having some of the day after effects of insomnia. Then again, maybe I didn’t have as much deep sleep as I thought I did. But I’m trying not to overthink this. lol.

[Deb]

It only took a few days and I was sleeping like a baby and feeling good when I got up. That’s great that you just let your mind wander and do whatever. That’s how it works!

Btw, I’m having a bit of a relapse. Worry was creeping in this week. I got into my old pattern of having a drink to make sure I would sleep. Of course, I knew that was no permanent solution, but the anxiety got the best of me. Finally I faced the fear and went to bed without any crutch. I accepted the fact that my sleep might be bad. It took hours to fall asleep and I’m “ok” today. Nik Burn awhile back said that maybe I should allow myself to have a bad night so that I don’t fear it. Well earlier I couldn’t because I was falling asleep quickly every night. But last night I finally had it. Just have to get back with the program and get back on track.

[delv-x]

Just checking in. I’ve had a few decent weeks of sleep with little complaints. The run was short lived compared to over the summer. All last week I’ve had a lot of REM dreaming but actually I’ve felt pretty damn good and normal. 2 nights ago I had trouble falling asleep and staying asleep. I figured I got maybe 2 hours of sleep in total but my appetite was low and felt anxious. Last night I went to bed at 11 and fell asleep within minutes and was up at 3:30 (4.5 hours). From 3:30 to 7, it was very comfortable but just couldn’t fall back to sleep. Drive in to work, I was drowsy and now at work and time feels so slow. I feel a little nauseous and feel like gagging. Chest and heart feel blah and urge to tense, release, relax and take a nice deep breath is there. Anyway, it’s what I call anxiety day for no reason. I wish I could let my body know that there is no need for alarm and to chill.

I am trying to accept the feelings, talk to it (her name is anxious annie) and know it’s just my body letting me know it feels a threat. It helps but sometimes the persistency is annoying.

[Featherly]

I haven’t gotten to that point, Deb, falling asleep and then the next thing you know it’s morning. I’m waking 3 or so times. I’m so gratefully often sleeping 6.5 to 7.5 hours now. The tools work to usually get me back to sleep. THANK YOU ACT!. I’m finding that looking at my notes on Dr. Meadows book just before bed helps. Last night I drew little sketches of my less frequent arrivals. A marshmellowy fellow with little springs coming out of his body, named Springy – my fleeting thoughts. A thunder bolt – occasional shoulder pain, and a plump glob with tons of heavy eye bags – fear of wakefulness. It was a fun and helpful activity 🙂
Like life, I know things can turn on a dime. It will be challenging to apply the tools when stresses hit. Then the fears and anxiety will visit. I think of you Deb. It’s empowering that you have the strategies that get you back on track. It’s hard to get unstuck from troublesome, spiraling thoughts. I want to believe that mindfulness has the ability to conquer whatever the thinking mind does.

[Steve]

Well, last night was a real problem after that one really good sleep I had Tuesday night. I woke up within a half hour of going to sleep and then I started having problems with the CPAP machine. And that’s probably what woke me up to begin with. It wasn’t keeping my airway open like it did this past week and so I kept gasping for air. The only way I could lie comfortable and still was to lie on my left side but that resulted in muscle pain lying like that all night. So, I maybe got 2 to 3 hours of sleep in. I feel lousy today but I can function. I have an appointment to have the CPAP machine looked at and I hope they can either find a problem with it or increase the pressure. If they can’t do either, I’m going to have a problem. The end result is that I think most of the problem was the CPAP machine but I also think I just am not ready for two good sleep nights in a row. I still have some anxiety and I letting the mind wander is tough.

Deb – I really hope you can get back on track. Yes, skip the alcohol. You didn’t need it before so don’t start that now. Just go back to what you were doing before. Are you still on your anti-anxiety meds? You might want to stay on them for awhile.

Delv – Sorry you had a rough night. We just need to keep on accepting the results of whatever sleep we get.

[Steve]

Featherly,

I do try to practice mindfulness but sometimes it’s hard to remember and other times the unwelcome thoughts are so overpowering I forget to use the mindfulness. i talked to my counselor about this and asked her if daydreaming was okay as long as the daydream thoughts are good ones, like me riding my motorcycle. She thought it was okay as she said the whole purpose of mindfulness was to get away and separate from the unwelcome thoughts. A daydream of pleasant thoughts can do that. It can push the unwelcome thoughts right out of our mind for awhile and that’s what I need. Sometimes, for me at least, it’s not good enough to just separate ourselves from the unwelcome thoughts. I need to push them from my mind completely so I don’t keep thinking of them and dwell on them.

[Deb]

Delv & Steve – sorry you had bad nights.

Steve – hope you can get the CPAP situation worked out. One thought about not having two good nights in a row. Maybe best to let go of the thought that if you have one good night, the following night will be bad. Don’t set yourself up for a bad night! No reason not to have more than one good night in a row!

Feathery – glad you’re doing well with the 6.5-7.5 hours of sleep. That’s great!

[Steve]

Deb – Yes, figured out the CPAP and last night I was back to getting around 6+ hours of sleep. I still get 2 or 3 wake-ups in there but I am slowly progressing in the right direction again. And yes, you are right in that I don’t want to sabotage myself by thinking I can’t get several good nights of sleep in a row. Self defeating talk like that won’t help me and i got to eliminate that from my thinking.

Hope you had a good sleep as well last night and got back on track.

[TiredTwinDad]

Greetings!

I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of ACT. Deb commented on my first post. My sleep doc was basically having me take a break from CBT-i , so we took the rules/logging away and were working on mindfulness/acceptance anyways, though she didn’t know Dr. Guy’s book existed.

I struggle with Sleep Maintenance (Onset is rare, though it has come up twice recently). I was always a short sleeper to begin with, but all year long I started waking at least an hour or more earlier than usual. I’ve been working on ACT for maybe a month or so. Staying in bed resting certainly gives me more energy in the day vs getting out of bed (which rarely resulted in going back down) and micro-sleeps during my afternoon job are now more rare. My attitude when I do wake certainly has changed, certainly more mellow. But it is difficult to lay there for an hour or more. I grow impatient, listening for any audible sign it’s almost 5a (my wife’s alarm). There are still various weird events that happen during the night where I do end up using meds maybe once a week, and I’m sure that’s setting me back.

Here’s some related topics I can’t decide on what to do:

SR – I think adding an earlier alarm when I did CBT-i caused anxiety. I already get up at my wife’s 5a alarm. And I don’t know how shortening my in-bed time will help me fall back asleep at 3a, since I have almost no problem with my sleep drive/falling asleep. I think the only thing it would help is the relief of just lying there for an hour or more. But still I’m trying to re-train my brain that I don’t get out of bed at that time.

Caffeine – When all of this started, I was drinking 2 cups in the morning (24 oz before 7a). After learning more about caffeine half/quarter-life I cuz it down to 12 oz. I can certainly get through, and will occasionally have a second cup with seemingly no effect on the evening. It’s more routine with my wife (though we don’t drink 2nd cup together)

Clock watching/Logging – Several times during my CBT-i, sleep doc told me to pause logging. Lately I’ve been putting a color on the calendar (red/pink/yellow/green) because I’m sure it’s beneficial to me to see some kind of week to week progress over time. But the flip side of that is I’m making a judgement, which is not really acceptance.

[Author]

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