[Deb]

Welcome TiredDad! Glad staying in bed is helping you have more energy the next day. Here’s my thoughts about your three points:

SR – The sleep doctor from Guy Meadow’s clinic recommends not strictly limiting your sleep because it causes more anxiety for some people. Better to have a more relaxed sleep window. For myself, mine was very relaxed and it caused no problems.

Caffeine – I don’t think the amount of caffeine you’re having should be a problem (unless you start worrying out it!) I have about the same amount of coffee as you do.

Clock watching/logging: It’s best not to watch the clock, but I did find having a sleep calendar helpful so I could see my progress.

I’m sure others here will also share their thoughts about these topics.

By the way, when did your insomnia start?

[Featherly]

Steve,- hopefully that CPAP difficulty was a one night event. Sometimes I’m more aware of mine than others and it can feel like I’m to enclosed. Those are the times I’ll take it off for part of the night. I didn’t wear it all of last night because the humidity made it to uncomfortable.
I was a bit off last night and struggling more than usual after a really good night. I wanted to get out of bed but wouldn’t let myself. I’ve been slacking off on practicing during the day.

Deb – how are you doing? I bet you’ve revisited the tools, maybe substitute the evening alcohol with something else and on you’re way to getting back on track.

Delv-x – I hope you’re working things through with anxious annie. I can relate to your ‘feeling anxious for no reason day’ It is a good time to do something you love – nurture your spirit.

[Deb]

Ellen/Featherly – Slept fine last night for the most part. Think I woke up a little early because I didn’t feel refreshed when I got up. Or maybe the sleep was light. But at least I wasn’t awake for hours like the night before. Fell asleep right away. Thanks for asking.

[Padron1926]

Still trying to get the hang of ACT. A lot of times I wake up and can feel the anxiety in my shoulders/upper chest and in my forearms. Its a tense feeling in my shoulders and burning/heat sensation in my forearms. Also I dont have a problem with negative thoughts lingering in my mind or me following them but a lot of times they speed or ping their way into my mind without me even noticing them and it sends a anxious wave/pulse thru my body without me even thinking about them which is weird. For the tense body parts, I observe them and zoom in on the problem spot be it my forearms or shoulders and just think kind compassionate thoughts about them. I’m trying to just relax my body which may be part of my problem, the trying to achieve results and maybe I should just do it with no expectations. Any thoughts on this or the pinging of racing thoughts causing anxiety spikes (this one I’m really lost on what to do)? Thanks

[TiredTwinDad]

This bout of insomnia started in January, after being ill around Xmas time. I was suddenly waking an hour or more earlier, and before that I would get less than 7 hours. So now it’s 6 or less every day. My previous bout was with Onset was after my twins were born and the night feedings were finished. I had years of poor sleep hygiene before that, and now added afternoon caffeine (since work had a nice coffee shop inside at the time) to cope with the night feedings. I couldn’t figure out why I couldn’t sleep and eventually got pills. I did CBT-i on my own, but I think it cleared up once I fixed my sleep hygiene. So what I learned from that first CBT-i was to get out of bed if you’re awake. Well that’s what I’ve been doing since January. I’d wake before 4a, go downstairs and hope to sleep on the couch. So my brain has learned that behavior, at least that’s my theory. ACT has at least changed my outlook a little, and I usually feel more rested (except for today), even though I don’t believe my sleep has extended much the last 3-4 weeks.

[Deb]

Anybody have any suggestions for Padron?

[burn]

Perhaps you need more time. When I switched to ACT after my attempts with sleep restriction this summer, first several nights were very, very bad, with a lot of anxiety. It was all over my body, couldn’t do anything about it. Hopefully, these symptoms will improve.
Definitely, ACT takes time. I still struggle often, not completely surrendering my desire for sleep. I think it will take time and patience for many of us.

[Pam1129]

Just checking in,
Also feeling a bit out of sorts of late, although doing pretty well on keeping it positive, i do feel a bit like You Padron , like maybe I’m just not getting it. I have to admit , however that I dont spend time during the day to practice mindfulness , I just get busy and wait until I get in bed… for those of you that have been sleeping pretty well , did you consistently ‘practice’ throughout the day ??
When I had done SO well for. a those couple weeks, I was beyond thrilled and felt rested ( even with the many wakes)
Just been having a tough time getting back to sleep , so thoughts? Is it my lack of practicing maybe?

[Padron1926]

I do a 30-45 minute mindfulness meditation everyday. First part is guided, moving body into comfortable position and assessing with my mind whether that is true or if I can be more comfortable. Next is stillness body scan and looking at each body part from the feet to the head to the hands. Then relaxing the mind, softening any troubled thoughts past or future. And lastly once my mind and body is relaxed, focusing on the whole breath (inhale/exhale/pauses) and bringing my focus back to the breath if it wanders. Its guided by a Buddhist monk Ajhan Brahm. If you search “Ajahn Brahm mindfulness meditation” in youtube, you can find his guided meditation sessions.

I feel like this ACT approach will work for me because I “accidentally” did something similar 8 years ago when I had the same exact problem. I basically stopped caring about my insomnia and trying to fix it and guess I just accepted that I had it and had to move on with my life with it. And like a switch, I didn’t have it anymore and was able to sleep much better. There was no incremental improvement, for me, and I don’t even remember the day it happened but all of a sudden I slept better and it continued and I didn’t give it anymore thought. I guess what I’m trying to say is I just gave up on expectations (easier said than done I know). There was no thought “I had a night or a couple nights of good/bad sleep, I wonder what tonight will bring”. I didn’t care how many hours I slept or days in a row I slept good, I just slept like I always had, pre-insomnia, without giving it any thought and woke up feeling good.

There was no sleep restriction set number of hours that I adhered to, diary tracking of sleep or getting out of bed in the middle of the night when I woke and returning to bed when I was sleepy. All those things nuked my anxiety to sky high levels when I tried them. There were times I had severe mental breakdowns that I had never experienced in my life before and couldn’t function on those days. The problem I dealt with was I know if I follow the rules they should help me but it seemed so strict that if I didn’t follow the rules exactly everyday I wasn’t going to get better. No naps, oopps I feel asleep at my work desk after lunch or I’m so tired that I need to nap so I can be able to drive to visit friends and have a semblance of life on the weekends, I had the thought that I probably screwed up my night of sleep and all the “progress” I had made so far. Must stay up to sleep window, no microsleeps. I had to switch myself over to a hard wooden chair, from my nice comfortable relaxing recliner, or stand up and march in place so I didn’t doze off or go for a hour walk at night so I didn’t fall asleep. Oopps I fell asleep in my recliner for a couple minutes, I’m screwed I thought and couldn’t get to sleep when my window began because I dozed off when I wasn’t supposed to. SC was the worst. How long have I been awake for, do I need to get out of bed now, I’m tired as hell but at least I’m comfortable here in bed but I need to get up because I need to follow the program or I’m not going to get better and ruin any progress. Great, now I’m out of bed but I’m so freaking tired that I can’t read, don’t want to watch television, but I can sort of listen to it with my eyes closed but I can’t fall asleep where I’m at cause that wouldn’t be following SC. I just want to get back into bed but have I spent enough time out of bed yet, am I sleepy enough to go back to bed, I don’t know but I am stupid tired. Get back into bed, not falling back to sleep, am I spending too much time in bed and how long have I been here awake, do I need to get back out of bed again. I’m beginning to fall asleep but I’m not sure if I’m in my recliner or bed, better anxiously wake myself to see where I fell asleep to make sure it’s the bed. Then lets record the horror of the night before day after day in a sleep diary. That was my SR/SC hell.

/Rant Sorry needed to vent

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Padron1926.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Padron1926.

[Deb]

Lol! I think we can all relate, Padron. It’s interesting that my recovery was sort of like yours in that it happened very quickly. When I finally started to practice ACT diligently without any props/pills or anything then within a week and a half I was practically recovered. Once I recovered I went back to my old ways like sleeping in late in the morning if I wanted to, taking a nap in evening if a dinner drink was stronger than usual and then having no problem going to bed right afterwards at the regular time, watching TV or reading in bed, etc. – anyway, not worrying at all about sleep again, just like before the insomnia.

Well now I’ve relapsed for a few days. So hopefully I’ll just do what I did before and get better again soon.

[Padron1926]

Don’t give the relapse any weight or importance. It is what it is and don’t let it be concerning or alter any behaviors/thoughts that keep you on track to better sleep.

[Featherly]

Padron–just couldn’t stop smiling at your rant as it is mine as well! Now I accept and own the (dreadful horror) of an experience. ACT is so wonderfully different. I often revisit the sleep book (by G meadows) to keep concepts fresh and in practice. I tend to sleep well for awhile and then ease up on the tools, opening the gate to old habits.

To follow up on what Padron said to Deb — keep noticing expectations as unhelpful and work the ACT magic.

Pam– I strive to get better at daily practice but often get busy with my day too. I’ll just get in a few fleeting minutes of mindfulness. Surprisingly, it is quite pleasant to do. I sit quietly each morning for 20-10 minutes but often feel I’m more resting than anything. My mind gets quiet or I bring it back from distraction. I think daily practice goes a long way in noticing and being ready for unhelpful thoughts.

[Steve]

Yeah Padron, I know where you’re coming from. That was me doing SC as well. I’m much better on ACT. I am getting between 6 and 7 hours of sleep now mostly and while I still need more, I’m getting way more than I did when I was doing SR/SC. Last week, I got over 7 one night and kind of felt refreshed when I got up. It didn’t last long since I have had insomnia for about 11 months now and so need a couple of those days I guess, but it felt good. Hope everyone here is starting to sleep well again. I know some of us have had a rough past week or two.

[Deb]

Steve – that’s great that you’re getting 6 to 7 hours of sleep every night!

I slept well last night – felt like normal again. Heeded Padron’s advice.

[Featherly]

So glad you’re back sleeping well, Deb!! You’re a leader and a model to many. It’s good to know relapses happen and are no big deal. Similar to a good sleeper ( which you are and we are all moving toward), having an occasional poor night or 2 occur, and then good sleep returns.

[Author]

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