[Mac0908]

Right but what strategies have you been implementing ?

[Steve]

All ACT. No sleep window. I am in bed for about 8 hours as that is what I used to do pre-insomnia. Definitely no SC. I stay in bed if I can’t sleep. I practice all of the meditations and tools as outlined in the Meadows Sleep Book. I started acupuncture but not sure if it’s reducing my anxiety any yet. I’ll give it a couple more sessions but even if it doesn’t help my insomnia, I might stick with it if it helps other areas of my body.

[Da1265]

Lauriso – tell me your story please. This sounds like something I have dealt which is you feel like you can sleep but it’s very light or shallow sleep and then once you’re up you try to “fall sleep” again but you just kind of lie there awake and can’t seem to. How long has this been going on? Before I used to be able to sleep and then if I woke up to go to the bathroom or something I would just go and then come back and fall into a deep sleep again. I’ve tried magnesium which is natural and non habit forming.

Also Deb what is your opinion on magnesium? Have you tried it or known anyone who has tried it? Almost everybody like 90% of people are deficient in this mineral. I’ve been reading the Sleep Book, I’m on chapter 2 the accept stage and I’m just wondering. What about GABA? it’s the most important neurotransmitter that regulates anxiety and calms us and puts us in a deep sleep but the Sleep Book says no “pills and potions” does that mean I shouldn’t be trying to eat a lot healthier and take any vitamins that help boost the GABA in my brain? GABA has science behind it you know it’s not just some addictive sleep pill that knocks you out

[Steve]

Da1265 – I tried magnesium supplements for about two months. They didn’t do a thing for me.

[Deb]

I was awake most of the night but I stayed in bed not trying to do anything about it like getting up and having a drink or pill and reading. Luckily I got some sleep in the early morning so I’m not a zombie today. I’m sure it will hit hard in the evening though. I want to stay on schedule, so even if I’m tired I’ll stay up till at least 10:30 or so.

This has been my pattern before, so hopefully tonight it will start improving. Just do nothing and let go and eventually the body will take over again. Just do what a normal sleeper does.

[Deb]

David (Da) – our type of insomnia is caused by sleep anxiety, so we need therapy specifically for this. That’s what CBT-I and ACT are for. You can try all these different supplements and eat healthier, but this might not make much of a difference to your sleep. The anxiety was brought on and perpetuated not by something physical, but mental.

You mention how you “try to fall asleep” when you go back to bed. This is the problem. The more you “try” (including supplements, etc.) the more sleep will elude you. You have to let go of trying and struggling to go to sleep. That’s the main message of the book.

[KarenP]

Deb- Sorry about your off night! I had 2 off nights over Thanksgiving. Both had explanations. One was Thanksgiving night when I hosted 19 people for dinner! Went to bed annoyed with some family members and couldn’t turn off monkey mind. I’d been practicing mindfulness every day, and had been so successful with ACT for the last 4 months or so. That night I was trying too hard to welcome etc. and I realize now that I was working myself up into an anxious mess. I actually considered getting out of bed, and would have to have broken my thought train, but I had people sleeping all over the house! I sadly felt like a zombie the next day with visiting family. It took me a good week or so to finally get my confidence back. I reread parts of Guy’s book and realized that night I was truly not accepting, but fighting my insomnia again. I had gotten so used to good sleep that I was shocked and super annoyed that insomnia was back! Happy to say my good sleep has returned!

[Steve]

Deb – Sorry to hear about the bad sleep but yes, you have been through this before and it usually only takes you a day or two to get back on track. Just out of curiosity, what goes into making a White Russian? Vodka?

Karen – Good to hear you are back on track. Families can cause a lot of stress and anxiety. Hopefully the Christmas/New Year’s season will be better to you. Just accept what comes. Good luck. I hope to be as well as you some day.

[Deb]

Yes I had one relapse before in October. It took me awhile because like, Karen, I wasn’t very happy with the relapse after sleeping great for 2 months. I was in denial at first, drinking my white russians to knock me out and then I traveled 2 times and when I did I took Ambien. I think I was also afraid that it might not work as well as it did before and part of me was afraid to try. But once I buckled down and did ACT again, I was good to go by about the third night. Glad you’re sleeping well again, Karen.

I make my white Russians with equal parts vodka, Kailua and half & half. It’s about one ounce each for a total of 3 ounces.

[Mac0908]

Well it looks like I’m officially back to the old “every other week” routine with my sleep, this time during ACT. Had a decent night Saturday as I told you guys on Sunday, and ever since then it’s been bad. Sunday, Monday and now last night all poor to bad nights. Last week I was doing ok. What happens is I will then “reset” come the weekend when I have no alarm anxiety and that will carry over for a good week, then as weird as this sounds I’ll get too comfortable with sleeping well, will have a poor night, and then it will spiral a bit.

I’m somewhat calm right now, but just so so sick of this. I know what I have to do to get back to doing better, but man, being a zombie now for a 3 DAYS in a row now really just makes me feel like everything has been a wash. Like many others have said here, I go to bed at night with almost ZERO anxiety at all. Nothing. I’m comfortable and just relax. It’s all underlying and in my subconscience. Any words of wisdom? Anyone? Help a guy out : (

[Deb]

Sorry you’re having such a hard time, Mac. I was wondering, what if you were to move up your bed time? For myself, my recovery was helped by not having to worry about waking up early and not getting enough sleep. So for instance, what if you were to move your bed time to 9:00? Then even if you woke up early before your alarm clock, you still would get plenty of rest. Then when you went to bed you might have less alarm clock worry. Just a thought.

Last night my sleep was much better. But I’m still not completely confident. I went to bed totally exhausted after two days of being pretty tired, but then worry kicked in. I knew I wasn’t going to fall asleep that way so I got up. I knew I had to do something to calm myself down. I was feeling very frustrated though and tempted to say “the heck with it” and take a sleeping pill. I decided to compromise and had a drink and journaled for a bit. It helped a little but still my mind was not in the right place. Finally I got the inspiration to read a little from The Sleep Book. I opened it up to a random page and read. It was exactly what I needed to read and calmed me right down. Then I went to bed, fell asleep and had a good rest. Thank goodness.

[Mac0908]

So glad you were able to break your funk last night Deb, even if it wasn’t a perfect night.

I appreciate your suggestion about the earlier bedtime but if anything I feel like it should be the opposite, no? Bottom line is when I have my early awakening that is the one time when the anxiety still occurs for me the most. I want to try and avoid it any way I can and going to sleep earlier (9pm) would almost guarantee a 3 or 4am wake up. So, not my cup of tea imo

The reality is during ACT this last month and “letting it all go”, I have not felt a strong sleep drive once and I feel it may finally be becoming an issue. Though the first two weeks of ACT I slept great. Go figure. I’ve been going in bed around 10:15pm lately and no, I’m simply not that tired. I know that a bedtime shouldn’t matter much in ACT, but wasn’t a big part of SRT to teach us how long of a night we really need?

For me it’s always been around 7 hours. So maybe I should finally just cave and try to stick to an 11pm bedtime. It’s just such a hard thing to figure out Bc truth is before insomnia id go in my bed by 10:15-10;30 most nights and would often make it to my alarm. ACT should be all about believing you can easily get there again, shouldn’t it ?

[Steve]

Mac – I’m very sorry you are having trouble with your sleep again but I don’t think you really understand ACT. Deb gave you sound advice. Go to bed earlier so that if you do wake up, you can rest in bed and save energy for the next day. You say you don’t want to do this because you’ll wake up early and stay awake due to anxiety. But that’s exactly what you are supposed to do with ACT. Face your unwelcome thoughts, feelings and anxiety until you get to know them and are comfortable with them. Until you do that, your anxiety will remain under the surface and keep waking you up in these cycles. SRT and ACT are incompatible due to the restricted sleep window factor and stimulus control. And no, ACT is not about easily believing you can be a normal sleeper again. It takes consistent work. You really need to re-read the ACT book again…..and again, as many of us have. Hope you get better sleep soon.

[Mac0908]

Ok thanks Steve for your input, but I just want you to understand going to bed at 9pm would almost guarantee me a bad night. Is that what you are saying I should deal with? To wake up and “face my fears” so to speak? To have a hellacious night but at least learn something in the process? (Serious question)

Just seems wild to legitimately sign myself up for a zombie day. Never done that before. Waking at 3AM or so and just “resting” for hours before work does not do it for me. It never has. Sure its good to relax and get more comfortable in the moment, but I need actual sleep to function.

[Steve]

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. I know it seems strange to say that but you have to learn to live with your anxiety and unwelcome thoughts even though you know you will have a bad day the next day. You have to learn to welcome the bad feelings you will get the next day from having a bad sleep. Use the tools to welcome all of your unwelcome thoughts and feelings, including the symptoms you will have the next day. You can’t learn to deal with the anxiety until you welcome everything and learn it’s not going to hurt you. You really need to re-read the book. It will explain the logic better than I can. Or let Deb explain it as she is good at that.

[Author]

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