[Deb]

Thanks for sharing Steve. No new YouTube singing videos. Working on some songs though. So it looks like your sleep window is about 8 hours and your sleep is gradually getting better within that time period, with longer periods of sleep before waking up and then being able to fall back to sleep more easily.

Mac – before I answer your question about when to go to bed (if I even can) I have a few questions. Before the insomnia what time did you usually go to bed and wake up? Since starting ACT, what has been your sleep schedule – go to bed, wake up time? During the periods where you have been sleeping pretty good since ACT, when would you wake up and how many hours of sleep would you get? What’s your absolute minimum number of hours to sleep in order to avoid being a zombie?

[Mac0908]

Hi Deb. Before this all began all those years ago my average bedtime was 10:30 or so. Some nights a little before, on more rarer occasions a tad later. I’d crash within about 20 minutes most nights and would wake up at 6am, which has been my alarm time since 2011. More often than not, probably on nights when I went to bed a bit early, I’d actually wake at 5:45 or 5:50a, since my brain had been conditioned and programmed for 6am alarm for so long. Weekends I’d sleep in a bit.

Rarely would I ever go to bed before 10pm unless maybe I was sick. When sleeping good with ACT i’d be getting around 6.5 sometimes 7 hours of sleep. Plenty of nights those first two weeks where i’d jump into bed at 10:30, was out by 11 and made it to be 6am alarm. I need at least 6 hours sleep to feel decent or else i’m in trouble. 7 or more and I feel good.

[Deb]

Mac – so it sounds like you’re most comfortable with going to bed at 10 or 10:30, so maybe you should stick with that. But if you’re very tired (like on the days you didn’t sleep well the night before), go to bed at 10:00 because you probably need more sleep. Then when you wake up, practice ACT. Use whatever tools which will help you get to the place of acceptance of the sleeplessness. If there’s frustration or other negative emotions, don’t give in to them. Use mindfulness, welcoming or whatever will help you let them go so that you can relax and accept whether or not you will sleep. I found it helpful to tell myself that I’m “resting” so that there were no expectations. I think over time, like Steve, you’ll start falling back asleep more easily and the length of solid sleep will increase.

[Mac0908]

I think I kinda of like this strategy, Deb. Instead of having any worry, basically accept the fact that it’s likely going to happen, and focus how I can beat it/get past it when it does, with proper ACT tools. Obviously I’ve known this is what I’m supposed to be doing all along, but I guess I always focused with mindfulness more in the build up to sleep than the actual awakenings when they happen. Guy Meadows said, and I remember this from years ago now, when you wake up, you don’t panic, you just understand that ok, I’m probably going to be up for a little while. Then implement some ACT

[Steve]

Thanks Deb. It has taken me awhile to get where I am with ACT. I have it written down that I started August 7 so it’s been a little over 4 months. It takes time. Some people pick it up quicker than others. And remember for those of you starting ACT that after 4+ months, I am nowhere near “cured” yet. So don’t get discouraged if it starts taking you awhile to pick it up.

[Mac0908]

Steve if you had to pinpoint one thing as a possible culprit for you not being fully “cured” yet what would it be ?

[Steve]

Mac – Deep seated anxiety. It just takes a long time to get rid of it, or live with it peacefully. I had insomnia for 9 months before that August date when I started ACT whole-heartedly, so it was really ingrained in me. I tried CBT-i but the SC just made the insomnia worse.

[Deb]

Jamie – how are you doing? Is the SRT continuing to help you get better?

[JTthemillenial]

SRT has worked really well for me this time around! My sleep window is 7.25 hours right now, but my sleep itself is still a bit broken. Luckily though, when I wake up I am usually able to fall back asleep within minutes. Onset was the main issue and it is resolving really well. I have some sleep anxiety when I go to bed, but I am able to talk myself down and get to sleep in a reasonable amount of time, thanks largely on part to ACT. The repeated experiences of good sleep have really boosted my confidence and successfully reset my circadian rhythm. I’m not even as worried about a bad night anymore because I have been generally feeling good for a few weeks now and know that if there’s a relapse (even a bad one) I can go through the process again and get better. I’m confident that the worst is over, and that in of itself has been a major hurdle to clear. I’m sure I’ll be around here for a while though, as I haven’t fully recovered yet.

Deb, did you get over your most recent setback?

Mac, sorry to hear about your frustration. I would say to stick with ACT for a while longer and if things don’t improve in the long term, maybe go back to SRT, but continue to use the ACT tools. I found what worked for me was that SRT basically bought me more time to master the ACT tools while also making my sleep patterns more consistent and predictable. My personal experience with SRT has been that it works as more than “just a band aid” and I think that if it works for you in the beginning there’s no reason you wouldn’t be able to see it through to the end.

On top of that, you’ve gotten a lot of advice from people on this forum who are well-intentioned but are only experts on our own recoveries. You may consider consulting Martin or another professional for more clear and consistent guidance.

[JTthemillenial]

Also, sorry to be that person, but how do I unsubscribe from getting email updates for this forum? I wasn’t subscribed before but am now randomly getting them.

[Deb]

Hi Jamie – that’s awesome that you’re doing so much better! To unsubscribe, just go to the top of this page and hit the unsubscribe button. I wonder if you would also need to uncheck the little blue box below where it says “Notify me of follow-up replies via email.” In that case, you might have to do it every time. You’re right about none of us being pros, but just experts on our own recoveries. I find it best to follow our own intuition and do what feels right for us – just like you’re doing. But if stuck or nothing is working, then talk to a pro.

I’m still not complete recovered, but getting there. The night before last I was awake a few hours. But I stayed in bed and didn’t use any props and eventually fell asleep. I slept in an extra hour so I felt fine all day. Last night it only took about 20 minutes.

[Mac0908]

Hi Jamie thank you for your thoughts. SRT did work for me, yes, and it would again I’m sure. But my problem was always, constantly, relapsing not too long after I’d go off of it. I have no doubt that unlike yourself and so many others who only have a hard time for a couple of months and don’t have too many problems going back to normal, due to my YEARS of chronic insomnia I had (and still have, obviously) significant underlying anxiety in my arousal system. SRT helped no doubt give me some much needed confidence along the way, but the only way this could truly be dealt with and “fixed” was with facing my anxiety head on with ACT, in my opinion, so that’s what I’ve moved onto, though I can see where you’re coming from by trying to implement both. Right now though I honestly want nothing to do with a strict sleep window. I just want to try and see ACT through. It’s only been a month and I’m doing decent.

I’m right now going through a very unique phase where for the first time I’m going into my nights flat out accepting and basically expecting to have my usual early awakenings. Making believe that they are a part of my night so when they happen, I don’t freak out like I usually do. While my last few nights while practicing ACT in this regard haven’t been great, I still feel very good about the new mentality, and no longer as anxious when thinking about the potential for early awakenings. Will touch base back here with everyone this week.

[Deb]

My recovery is taking longer this time for some reason. Oh well. I guess I’m just meant to learn some new things. The night before last I got frustrated after having the previous good night, being able to fall asleep within 20 minutes. I had thought I was on my way to recovery and might fall asleep quickly. But I laid in bed for hours. Anyway, I know that frustration is not compatible with falling asleep, but it was really hard to get out of that place. Eventually I got up and it was about 2:15. I had a drink and read until almost 3:00 and went back to bed and fell asleep. Slept until 8:30 so I was decent yesterday. Last night I was able to have the right attitude and just accept whatever happens. It took an hour or two but then I fell asleep. Slept again until 8:30 and feel good today. Will just try to keep up the right attitude no matter what happens. But if I just can’t change my attitude some nights, oh well. I’ll count it as a loss but then get back on the horse the next day.

[Mac0908]

Sorry to hear you are struggling Deb. If it makes you feel any better I was out by 11:15p last night, slept until my 6a alarm and somehow am exhausted today. Anxious/Light sleep I guess. Who knows. Accepting it. As far as you go you know what you have to do. Can’t worry or be frustrated when laying in bed at night no matter what. That will trigger your arousal system and that won’t be good. I don’t even think you should be getting up out of bed with ACT, though I guess you know yourself better than me. I just feel like with ACT, you should just lay there, relax, turn your brain off (which you should be able to do at this stage) and let sleep come to you. Getting out of bed is an SR tool, not ACT, am I right? Total acceptance with very light sleep hygiene tools and of course the basic ACT mindfulness. That is what ACT is all about from what I gather.

[Pam1129]

I haven’t been on here for about a month, for some reason I haven’t been getting the emails, and just wanted to get on here and check to see how you all were doing.

Deb, I’m so sorry about your relapse, but I also believe that in no time you’ll be back to restful nights again! You will never know how your words of encouragement truly saved me!

Steve, I believe you were the first to respond to my cry’s for help and I was very humbled by your reaching out to me!

Gdsmom, you too ,have given me words of life and I am so grateful to you!

And Mac, you’ve been instrumental as well with your care and concern; thank you!

For those of you that don’t know: I’ve struggled with chronic insomnia for almost 20 years! I happened upon Martins free online course one night while hmmmm I NOT SLEEPING; go figure haha!!! Anyway, it was here where I met all of you?

I did the SRT and SC and it was the SRT that got me started with an actual 3-4 hours of ( my window 12-5) consolidated sleep, which was amazing, since I’d had years Of just tossing and turning! I hated the SC but I was going to win this battle once and for all!! I absolutely felt tortured having to wait and stay awake till 12?

Then Deb mentioned ACT; I bought the book right away as I did anytime ‘something new’ was mentioned ; I too Mac, loved Sashas book and found it helpful..

. BUT it was the ACT that has really been my lifeline.

Am I cured, No … but I’m OK with it, or shall I say I’ve Accepted it!!

I started in August, I have had some relapses but I’m better than I have EVER been in a very long time , all , without the use of any sleep aids( and I have tried I believe ALL of them)

I , Steve like your post from the 12th; have a similar pattern, bed ; awake within an hour, sleep. A couple more, wake again , sleep, wake …. frustrating for sure and can’t wait for someday to go to bed and actually sleep for 5-7 hours straight ….!

BUT I am grateful for what I have now and truly grateful for all of you!!!

[Author]

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