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Welcome whitelori. Sorry to hear that you have insomnia for so long. People in this thread mostly follow ACT but we have all done CBT-i. So if you have any questions about either, feel free to ask. Also, don’t be afraid to post to let us know how you are doing. That’s what the support here is for. Nice to hear from you.
Awww, Mac! That’s too bad. Well, at least the weekend is just a couple nights away.
Welcome, Whitelori. I can’t imagine having insomnia for 30 years! Mine started in Oct 2018, so just over a year ago. Glad the posts have been helpful to you and helps you feel less alone.
Steve – good to hear from you and thanks for the encouragement. When I looked over my posts and sleep diary since this last relapse, I realized that I haven’t been consistently implementing ACT long enough for it to work. There were always interruptions and excuses. So now I’m starting again.
Gdsmom – Hey, go for the injections. I also have always looked younger than I am and having some work done helped even more. It’s worth it to help us feel good about ourselves. Also, it’s nice to see a head turn my way once in awhile again!
Thank you Steve. At this point, I just don’t know where to even begin with helping myself. I have tried ACT, but I am not getting anywhere. Do you have a sleep window or at least a definite walk up time? I have accepted my insomnia and welcome the thoughts, but I still can’t get to sleep.
Deb – I am glad you haven’t had insomnia as long as me and that you are working it through successfully! I have read so much and can’t remember if you are following a sleep window?
Deb – I know you can do it. You did it twice before! New year new sleep for you. Glad to hear you will cut back on the Ambien and White Russians again. Let us know how it’s going.
whitelori – ACT and a sleep window don’t really work together too well. Do you have the book by Guy Meadows? A sleep window can promote anxiety which ACT is trying to get rid of. Also, once you pick your time that you need to sleep (I use 8 hours as that is what I slept for – approximately – before I got insomnia) that is the time you should stay in bed for. A sleep window is geared more towards CBT-i in that you only stay in bed for the time you are actually sleeping. You would gradually increase that as your sleep improves. The theory there is that you only use the bed for sleep and you won’t get anxiety by staying awake in it all night. ACT doesn’t want you to get out of bed when you can’t sleep. With ACT, you accept the fact you can’t sleep even if it means lying in bed all night. That way, you get accustomed to your bed and you don’t become afraid of it, so your anxiety is reduced. Also, you get more rest because you are lying in bed rather than up doing activities as a short sleep window would have you doing. (If you are up because of a short sleep window, then you are expending energy doing some type of activity.) I hope I’m explaining that logically. Someone can correct me if I am wrong. So, I go to bed between 9:00 and 9:30 and my alarm goes off at 5:15, which is about 8 hours for me. CBT-i didn’t work too well for me as I had high anxiety. Without that rest from staying in bed. I would never be able to get through my workday. You need to start with accepting whatever sleep you get. Deb can help you more with that as she has some very good definitions of Acceptance.
Hi Steve, Yes, thank you. I was just wondering if you all set an approximate time for bed and wake up. It sounds like you do have an 8 hour planned schedule for the most part. Do you recommend an alarm whether you have to get up or not? I am not working, so I don’t have to get up. Also, I tried staying in bed, practicing mindfulness, and just resting all night long, yet my sleep has not improved yet and while I accept it, I’m still hoping for more improvement. I know people combine practices so was just wondering about sleep times. Thank you!!!
Steve, just wanted to say you are 100% right that I need to do that with Acceptance, but going with light sleep for very long periods can really be difficult. I really feel like I do accept it though, but deep down I do struggle. I do face those feelings though.
I use an alarm no matter what as I have to get up and one of these days, I might just sleep past my get up time if I don’t have it set.
Whitelori – ACT is tricky to implement. It would be best to read the book again, especially chapter 2 on Acceptance. Sometimes we’re struggling to sleep and we don’t even realize it. That’s why Dr. Guy says that sometimes we have to “catch ourselves in the act of struggling.” I’ve certainly found this to be true for myself. This chapter also is helpful because it gives the case study of Carlos, which would be good for you. He talks about how Carlos took at least two weeks before he really learned how to be completely accepting and peaceful in bed. His sleep did not improve during that those two weeks, but he finally “got” what it meant to be completely accepting and relaxed. Then it took a couple months for his sleep to get better and heal.
This is not easy to do though without some help and support. You said you’ve been lying in bed for long hours but not making any progress. My suspicion is that you aren’t completely accepting and relaxed in bed. I would really recommend you work with Dr. Kat from Guy Meadows’ clinic if you can, because she can help you analyze what you’re doing and thinking, and how it needs to be tweaked. For instance, if in bed you’re meditating, practicing mindfulness, or even practicing acceptance of the negative thoughts that are coming, you are still not completely relaxed in bed. Of course you may have to do some of these things initially to help you let go of any negative thoughts or feelings. But the goal is to get to the place of “complete calm.” I believe that when you can consistently get to this place of calm, then sleep will start coming to you naturally. At least that’s been my experience.
Ditto Steve;
welcome whitelori!!!When I first came upon this site, I too would just follow along and hope, that someday, maybe ‘my questions’ would get answered or addressed…then one day I actually posted and immediately Steve responded! I was blown away actually ( thanks Steve) then Deb, Mac,Daf, gsdsmom ,borgesbi
they truly cared and wanted to assist and share what they’ve been through , whats worked for them , and the books they’ve read…Insomnia is real!!! It’ most definitely can be downright Brutal at times …. BUT … to have others to share with, brings a sense of comfort !!! This forum keeps me Going!!
I pray this forum helps you as much as it has helped so many of us !! Although I have not met any of the people on here, there’s no denying This sense of a ‘bond/connection’ i feel to them all!
I hope you have purchased ‘The Sleep Book’ it’s been a very helpful tool!
We look forward to hearing from you!
Deb and Steve – Yes, I second Pam1129 and everyone who responds. Thank you for taking the time and for caring. Deb, I thought doing mindfulness in bed was OK or only at the beginning? I don’t do it unless I can’t fall asleep. I’m rereading the book and working with Kat may be my next step. I did actually sleep last night for the first time in I don’t know how long.
Pam1129, Thank you!!! I do have The Sleep Book, for years now. I do agree that having the support is wonderful as insomnia really is tough.
Thank you everyone again.
whitelori – Reading the book again is a very good start. We have all read the book a number of times and constantly refer back to it. ACT is not widely known as much as CBT-i is so the book and this forum are your first two places for help and information on it. Talking to Dr. Kat, if you can do it, is also a good place for help on it.
Whitelori – You do mindfulness at night if it helps you calm down and let go of any negative thoughts or emotions. But once you feel more calm and peaceful then you “do nothing.” Doing mindfulness is making effort. Any kind of thinking that takes effort will keep you awake. I find that once I am in a completely relaxed state then my mind begins to wander, just like it did before the insomnia. Then the body takes over and I fall asleep. Since you’ve had insomnia for 30 years you might have forgotten what this feels like in bed. In that case think about what it’s like listening to a boring lecture. Since the lecturer is not holding your attention then your mind starts to wander and it’s easy to accidentally fall asleep.
So maybe now you can see how ACT can be tricky. If you’re not doing it right, then no matter how long you try you won’t fall asleep and then conclude that ACT just doesn’t work. That’s why professional coaching is the best. Also since you said earlier that it’s hard for you to stick with CBT or ACT, working with someone will give you the “handholding” you need to keep going when it gets rough. If you decide to go this way I’ll give you some tips on working with Dr. Kat. Their outfit is not the most organized.
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