[Deb]

HI Mac – I slept better last night. Fell asleep after 1 or 2 hours and feel decent today. ACT seems to be working again. As far as special events go, I don’t know. ACT’s emphasis is always on accepting whatever happens so that we don’t worry about our sleep and inadvertently mess it up. I think that the more and more you can accept whatever happens, the more your mind will settle down and after while special events won’t be an issue. This past weekend I had a lot of stuff going on. When I was my fearful thinking during my relapse, my first thought in this kind of situation was to take a pill to make sure I could function well during the day. But this time I just told myself, I may not be in top form but I’ll be ok. And I was. I think you will be too if you can just accept whatever happens and go with the flow.

[Daf]

One thing I observed when I used to take sleep aids such as Zopiclone and Mirtazapine (Remeron) was that there was usually a knock on effect to later nights.

So, for example, with Mirt, it would assist getting a good night sleep on night one and also, the following night (even if not actually taken then, due to it’s long life), but on nights 3 and 4, I always noticed that sleep was quite “broken up” and “In and out” and light.

I am just saying that I observed this, because I see some of you, who occasionally take a sleep aid/ tablet, often also say that their sleep is a little like this on later nights, when you have taken nothing.

The best thing is to take nothing at all, of course, and maybe best you realise that there is some impact on subsequent nights, when you stop taking them.

Hope that helps. It is based on my observations of what happened to me.

[Deb]

Well I’ve just finished my 5th night of ACT and it seems to be working its magic again. Of course I hope I don’t jinx myself by saying this! The first night was long – maybe I was awake 4 or 5 hours or even more. The second and third nights I was awake 2 or 3 hours. The night before it was 1 to 2 hours and last night maybe a half hour. The quality of my sleep is gradually improving too. Let’s hope this keeps up!

[Mac0908]

I’m glad to hear that Deb. As you know its anything but an overnight fix once you fall back into the hole which you did. I’m sure you will now start to see more improvement over the course of the next couple of weeks until you finally come out of this. In the process of this relapse recovery your brain will learn more about how to heal for good, long term. Relapses are all just pieces of the puzzle in my honest opinion.

I personally have had a mediocre week at best. I didn’t have any flat out bad nights like I did that one night last week, but I certainly didn’t wake up refreshed everyday. I’ve been going through these new kind of nights where instead of any legitimate awakenings keeping me up, I end up in what feels like very light sleep for the last few hours I’m in bed. Perhaps that’s an improvement, perhaps its not. Still doesn’t change the fact that I’m tired today and was yesterday as well. But again, we aren’t talking about zombie days and I guess I should be happy about that just like I should be happy I’ve improved pretty well overall these last few months! Happy that it’s now the weekend and I know I’ll comfortably get two very nice nights of sleep. I remember the days when even the weekends were a struggle and not guaranteed better nights.

[Deb]

Hi Mac – So it sounds like you’re not waking up as often but having light sleep instead. That’s great that you’re not waking up! Now hopefully the light sleep will begin to consolidate into good sleep. Just keep relaxing and accepting. That’s how it was for me. Instead of laying in bed awake for hours, the time it took to fall asleep shortened but the sleep was light. Eventually, the sleep consolidated. That’s what I’m going through right now. I’m falling asleep within a reasonable period of time but still just a little tired when I wake up. But I’m rating my sleep a 4.5 out of 5, which is pretty darn good!

I’ve had some realizations through this last relapse which should help me in the future and minimize any future relapses instead of taking so long to finally get around to doing the therapy (almost two months.) I realized that I’ve been avoiding doing the ACT therapy because for months I’ve been carrying around some fears in the back of my mind:
– That my quick recovery in July (less than two weeks) was due to “luck.” I’ve seen others here on the forum take so much longer to get better, so I thought maybe I just got lucky that one time and it may not be easy the next time around.
– I thought maybe I had experienced the “placebo effect” where one believes one is healed, so then they act like someone who has healed.
– Because of the above, I was afraid that this time it was going to take a lot longer to heal and it would be a lot harder, so I dreaded getting started.
– I kept comparing what I was going through now with how it was back in July. When I started ACT in July I had one long night and then quickly shifted into the stage where I fell asleep soon but the sleep was light. This time, every time I tried to start I would have a day or two of really long nights (and then I would give up and take a pill or have a drink). I dreaded the thought of 2 or 3 weeks of long nights along with zombie days.
– Of course my biggest fear of all was this: IT WON’T WORK THIS TIME!

Talking to Dr. Kat really helped clear my mind. I stopped comparing and then finally settled in to do the therapy. And when I did it, lo and behold, it worked again just like before! It’s been seven nights now and I’m well on way towards total recovery. So it wasn’t just luck. It really works when you do it right and give it a chance. When I looked back over my sleep diary since the relapse began, I realized that I didn’t give it more than a night or two before I would give up. The fears were just dominating me.

Anyway, I’m very grateful to be feeling much better – both physically from decent sleep and emotionally, from relief from fears. How’s everyone else doing? Steve, Whitelori, Gdsmom? Karen – did you recover again from your recent relapse? Anybody else we haven’t heard from in awhile?

[Phil1ooo]

It’s been my general experience that not being able to sleep happens to most of us and more so to no sexual active people.
Why do I bring sex into this you may ask?

Sex plays a bigger part of our lives than most of us want to believe or even admit as the uses these chemicals in our bodies in more ways than one (Example) professional sports players and athletes will be told not to have sex the night before a game.

Weather it be with a partner or through mastibation the release of these chemicals from your body will in fact help you go to sleep. I know this sounds like a topic which most people try to avoid but yet it is such an important part of our daily lives which also helps with releasing frustration and personally also feel it help with some health aspects of our body as well buts that’s just my opinion coming from some who has never been sick.

À question you ask yourself is, how are your sleeping habits on nights after love making or for some mastibation?

I know these days I tend to stay up not feel g tired at all and can last 3 to 4 days without sleep before I start to tell myself this needs to stop and need to get some sleep eventually but if I have no reason to stay up knowing I am not tired then I mastibate and I am sleep g in no time.

At 56 now I was about 26yrs old when I worked this out after hear it somewhere (I forget where now) but knowing this has helped me all my life and I never had to see a doctor or others to solve this problem.

Hopes this helps some of you

[whitelori]

Deb – I am glad you are feeling better and the program is working for you. I would have replied sooner, but for some reason, I stopped getting notifications for this thread through email. I just happened to look and saw there were some new posts. I wish I could say I am better. I am doing what I should be, and consistently, as far as ACT, and I am still not getting the results. I am continuing though and not giving up. I have not gone back to CBT-I yet, but it is still something I am considering. Most of the sleep I might get doing ACT is light and unrefreshing. On occasion, I might go into a deeper sleep, and although positive, it isn’t enough yet to make me feel well rested. Your story and others give me hope though! I’ll keep at it. God Bless everyone!!!!

[Daf]

Phil, Interesting points about sexual release. I’m very much of the view that regular sexual release is good for sleep. However, for me I needed to avoid having sexual activity v late at night.
Also goes without saying that if you have had a nil sleep night you won’t feel like sleep at all.

[Deb]

Whitelori – just wondering is there any difference between now and before you started ACT? Did you have light sleep before? Are your hours awake any shorter?

[Deb]

Also is your mind calm and relaxed when you’re lying in bed?

[whitelori]

Hi Deb-I feel everything is the same. I usually have light sleep, and the occasional good night. Sometimes if it take klonopin or xanax, I will get a good night. So doing the ACT so far had not given me anything different. I do feel I am relaxed and if I sense not, I begin the exercise of acceptance, and stare at something like the window because I don’t know what else to do. My mind is usually very busy and wandering. I let it do that, but it really seems it wants to work and not rest.

[Deb]

Whitelori – if your mind is busy and working, I don’t think ACT will work. Also practicing the “exercise of acceptance” or staring out a window is “doing” something. They are both active and keeping your mind awake, and won’t help you fall asleep. I really encourage you to talk to Dr. Kat. I’m sure she’s worked with people with all types of situations and could help you achieve the complete relaxed state that you need in order to fall asleep. It just sounds like you need more day to day individual coaching to understand how to get to that place of relaxation. I remember in the Sleep Book, Dr. Guy talks about Carlos, who took two weeks to finally learn how to be in a relaxed state in bed. He had the advantage of individual coaching by Dr. Guy to get to that point. If you talk to Dr. Kat, you can also email her questions between sessions so that you have more day to day (or night to night) support.

[whitelori]

Deb-I guess then I don’t really understand ACT. To get to a place of acceptance, it takes work. Even if you let your mind wander, it is doing something? Even if you are telling yourself to accept whatever happens, you are doing something. I did read the book and about Carlos, and then the following chapters are all the exercises on how to deal with the thoughts, etc. and that for me is work. I might contact Dr. Kat as I am desperate! Thank so much. I know you are trying to help me!

[Deb]

ACT is tricky. That’s why some fine tuning is needed. We may think that we’re doing it right but if we’re not, it won’t work. Yes, to get to the place of acceptance takes work. That’s why many times I had to get up and write in my journal to clear out my mind. Then when I was completely accepting of whether or not I was going to sleep, I’d go back to bed.

About the mind wandering – yes that’s what needs to happen. But you said that your mind tends to be overactive when it wanders, and that is not conducive to sleep. It needs to calm down somehow. Maybe Dr. Kat will have some tips on that.

If you decide to work with Dr. Kat, please let us know here how it’s going and what you’re learning. Then others can benefit from your sessions as well. After my first hour session with her I asked if I could do half hour sessions with her once a week instead of an hour every two weeks, since appointments are available only every two weeks. She was very willing to do this.

If you want to get email notifications again of posts here, then unsubscribe and come back the next day and subscribe again. You should start getting the emails then.

[Mac0908]

Ugh, my first bad *weekend* night in a long time. Maybe over a month. Not really sure what happened either. I just remember crashing around 11pm and waking early and finishing the night in a light haze of sleep. Exhausted today. When I was up, I knew it was way too early and proceeded to put my head right back into the pillow with no real anxiety or fear overcoming me. No big deal, I thought. But yeah, just a bad weekend night. Gotta take a few of these still from time to time I guess. Gotta accept them. Still, always an awful experience. Wanted to go to the gym today. Not possible.

[Author]

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