[Mac0908]

My first semi-bad night since Friday night, and no real reason for it. Always hate those nights. Though I guess I did toss and turn a good little bit before bed. Seems like the better nights are always the ones when I’m completely exhausted and fall asleep quicker. Either way, I’m just tired today. When I had my early awakening at first I kinda got anxious. Months ago I would have let that anxiety overtake me leading to a flat out BAD night, but I quickly caught myself, used those ACT thoughts, and got my head back in the game. I slowly fell back asleep after this and was then woken by my alarm. I guess I should be happy for that. Still, I’m ready for these rough nights to be gone forever, and I do mean forever.

Deb, just curious. If you could sum up in one short paragraph how you finally recovered from your last rather rough relapse, how would you describe it?

[Deb]

Hi Mac – Well, first of all the relapse was rough because of my own mental blocks about getting back on the program. Once I got past the blocks with the help of Dr. Kat, I just did what I did before back in July. I went to bed accepting the fact that I might sleep or I might be awake most the night. Then I relaxed and let my mind wander. When I woke up tired the next morning I would just tell myself that I’m not too bad and that I’ll get through the day fine (assuming I wasn’t a zombie, which I never was fortunately). Then repeat the next night.

The first night I was awake most of the night but managed to catch a few hours of sleep in the early morning. The 2nd and 3rd nights I fell asleep after a few hours. The next few nights I was awake from 1/2 to 2 hours. It kept getting gradually better and better. I was in bed long hours until maybe 8:30 but still waking up tired. But within a week or so my sleep had deepened and I was falling asleep within 20 minutes and waking around 7-7:30 which is my normal time, fully refreshed. I was back to normal.

[gsdmom]

Hi Deb and everyone,

Still feeling only about 50% recovered. I’ll have 3 bad nights in row, then may get better slowly for 3-4 nights, then a few bad nights again. As I’ve mentioned before, it is the light sleep stages throwing me off. Sometimes I can’t tell if I’ve slept the first two hours. Then often I wake at 1am-1:30am, and can’t go back to sleep for a couple of hours. My good nights I sleep 5-7 hours, and every couple weeks may sleep one night for 9 hours. I still take Ambien as needed. I actually had Zzzzquill the other night, not for sleep but because I had a cold, for me it does nothing for sleep, but at least worked quickly for sinuses and cough.

I listened to a guided meditation recently the does the typical body scan, and then afterwards suggested to scan for what feels good? It seemed so positive, usually focused on what feels bad. So the last few nights where I’m up after the light sleep stage, I try and stay calm by focusing on what feels good (usually my stomach/abdomen are very relaxed) and then try to expand that goodness outward. Other times I just try the Let Go and Let God thoughts to come, the trick is not to focus on anything too much as then your mind is active/working instead of drifting and spacing out. That is not always easy.

As far as acceptance goes, I’ve just accepted I’m damaged goods for now and maybe forever. Details and memory are more difficult – I used to be so good with both. I’m just glad my job right now is working with numbers and not lives, like in health care.

[Mac0908]

Well I don’t know what to say anymore but it appears that I am in some trouble guys. Way too many rough nights over the last few weeks and just not enough overall progress here at this time, now some 3 solid months into ACT. Very bad night last night. Was I perfectly calm as I crashed? Yes. Did I for the most part accept it as it was happening? Yes. Am I just beyond frustrated and done with going to work looking like a sick zombie? Yes. Last night was actually one of those really bad nights that I actually came very close to just taking the day off when I woke up, but I didn’t.

I don’t know anymore Deb, Steve, Delv, etc. Sure I may not be practicing ACT in my head for hours a day, day after day, but I really must say it amazes me just how rough things have been lately given the absolute night and day difference I have when it comes to on the surface sleep anxiety before bed, not to mention the close to non-existent anxiety when I have my awakenings. I woke up at whatever middle of the night time it was last night, and I don’t know how to really explain it. I felt ok. I remained calm. I relaxed. Was I a TAD upset and anxious? Yes I was, but NOTHING like I used to be and NOTHING that should have caused me to basically never fall back into a deep sleep for the remainder of the night. I did have a strange urge to want to look at my phone last night which kind of lingered during the awakening, but I forced myself to not look at it. Maybe I should go back to putting my phone in another room, tho that feels like going backwards in a way.

It should be known again, even though I feel this shouldn’t be a factor with ACT, but, I DO go to sleep relatively early, around 10-10:15pm, even though I figured out a while ago now that my body’s sleep window is really meant for 7 hours. With a 6am alarm you’d say that doesn’t make sense, but, the thing is, most nights I really am just relatively tired, and with ACT in full force in my head, I simply hop in bed. I even look at my phone a bit before I crash. ACT has taken over and it feels great. But still, these awakenings are happening. Perhaps I should finally give in and start pushing myself to 11pm. Then that would take me back to SRT-ish ways which could make things worse (?)

Guys, please help me today…

• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Mac0908.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Mac0908.

[Steve]

gsdmom – That’s a great idea about the new meditation, focusing on the positive instead of the negative. I’m going to give that a try soon.

Mac – Sorry you had a bad night again but I know exactly what you mean. I, too, have wake-ups where I feel fine with little anxiety but still can’t get back to sleep. Those nights erase all of the gains I’ve gotten from the good sleeps I get. I am taking the view like gsdmom does that for now, I am damaged goods and will just keep practicing ACT until things get better. Not much else I can do as I’ve learned by now that there is no magic bullet.

[Mac0908]

Fair, yet scary point Steve. A big part of me doesn’t want to think that way but after ALL this time it’s hard not to try and accept that type of mentality. I’ve made big progress in the last 6 months yet still struggle pretty badly about half the time. That’s just not good. I mean what is really at the core of these “damaged goods” thoughts in your opinion, Steve? Just the fact that our nervous systems were traumatized for so long that the deep sleep anxiety caused by this is borderline permanent?

[Steve]

Mac – In your case maybe as I don’t see any other thing it can be. In my case, it’s either that or something did happen due to the surgery, especially since I’m having so much trouble with my vision and both the insomnia and vision problems came within two weeks after the surgery. But then I look at people like you who are having a very rough time and I think maybe the doctors are right and that the surgery didn’t cause it. Hard to say. I try not to think about it anymore but it is hard.

[Mac0908]

Steve remind me again what the surgery was about? All I can recall is that your sleep issues started after that and I assumed it was all stress related. Do you ever at least go on runs of a good 3-4 nights or even a week in a row? For me, the good thing is I guess, that I know for 100% certain its anxiety. On certain nights when I happen to be in a perfect frame of mind, most notably when I don’t have a 6am alarm staring at me in the morning, I almost never have an issue. It’s like the sleep of old. For example I rarely have bad weekend nights these days. I’ve even noticed that after good days in general where good things happen to me that put me in a good mood, sleep issues almost will never happen that night. It’s regular nights, after regular days, with work in the AM, like last night for example, that are the risks, still.

I have mentioned this briefly in the past, but in general I haven’t exactly been in the greatest place in the my life over the last few years. There is a little bit of depression going on sometimes, due to various things (including insomnia, I’m sure) Lord knows this has not helped matters and is probably even contributing to keeping my sleep problems intact. I often feel, and this I’ve mentioned before as well, that until I move and have a completely fresh start and new environment disconnecting me from my bedroom and where this all started and continued, I will never be fully healed. I know this sounds like the Mac of old here, but after almost 3.5 years now of sleep issues, it’s hard not to believe this, regardless of the (often times significant) improvement I’ve made over the last year or so.

[Steve]

I had a blocked vertebral artery which is in the back of the neck and supplies blood to the brain (coincidentally the vision area of the brain) and they put a stent in there to keep it open so I wouldn’t have a stroke. I’ve often wondered if a small blood clot or plaque in the artery broke off after the surgery and gave me a small stroke or somehow disrupted the blood flow and caused the vision problems and insomnia. The doctors have take several CT scans since then and say they can’t see that any of that happened. They say the insomnia is all anxiety related. As for the vision problems which have really deteriorated in the last couple of months, they say it sometimes happens that quick in some people and new glasses will fix it. We’ll see as I’ve ordered the new glasses and I’m waiting for them to come in.

[Deb]

Mac – why don’t you talk to Dr. Kat? I’m sure she’s worked with people like you who have the sleep maintenance issue. You need something to give you hope. It seems that when you first started ACT you were having some good nights. Part of that I’m sure was due to having hope in trying something new. That always seem to help with insomnia. That’s another reason I’m so convinced that insomnia, or at least our kind of chronic insomnia, is psychological. Anyway, after awhile it seemed that ACT wasn’t working so well for you. But if I remember correctly, you weren’t putting your focus on practicing ACT specifically when you wake up. That’s where your problem is and not when you go to bed. Finally you started focusing on that, but that was way less than 3 months ago. This is where your focus should have been from the very beginning – 3 months ago. Anyway, again you didn’t see the results you were hoping for so you started getting discouraged. Now I believe that your whole nervous system is stirred up because you’re losing hope, thus you’re having lots of bad nights because of it. But you’re sleeping well on the weekends because you BELIEVE you can. Again, this is psychological.

Here’s a suggestion if you don’t want to talk to Dr. Kat: Start keeping a sleep diary again. Record specifically what happens when you wake up – things like any anxious thoughts, whether you were able to let them go or not, whether you were able to accept and relax or not, if you then slept at all and what kind of sleep it was – light sleep, good sleep, whatever. Just record everything you remember about the night. Also record how you felt during the day and how your attitude was concerning your insomnia. Record anything else significant related to your insomnia.

I believe that if you do this every day and practice ACT consistently every night, you will start to see some improvement, even if small. I know that you tend to be impatient and want quick results. SRT was able to give you quick results, but you know that it took you a long time to get to the point of disciplining yourself to practice it consistently – maybe 2 years or more? ACT will give you results as well if practiced consistently, although the change may not be as dramatic as with SRT. But if you keep a record, you will see it and you will see a relationship between your thoughts, feelings, actions and your sleep. For myself, I kept a diary of my practice of ACT but only needed to do it for 2 weeks because I was cured then. Maybe my practice of ACT and then my healing was more concentrated into 2 weeks because of having sleep onset problems where I would have to practice ACT the entire night. But yours is just a couple hours at night, not all night. So maybe the length of time in terms of days needed to heal, will be longer.

I actually started keeping a sleep diary about a week after my relapse started because I began to wonder if I was doing things that were contributing to my insomnia. Sure enough, I was, and I could recognize patterns. I would try ACT for a night or two, then struggle and worry that ACT wasn’t going to work this time, then give up, then take a pill until finally I would get around to trying ACT again. But I was going around in circles and my mental blocks were getting in the way of sticking with ACT consistently. Finally after about 2 months and after talking to Dr. Kat, I was able to get past the mental blocks and practice ACT diligently. It only took 2 weeks then, after I got off the merry-go-round of being on and off with ACT. I believe that if you start keeping a sleep diary you may start to recognize some of these on and off patterns in yourself as well which are keeping you from making gradual, consistent progress.

[Mac0908]

Thanks Deb, as always, for your thoughtful (and lengthy) response. As upset as I may sound, I can comfortably tell you I’m nowhere near a level where I want, or in my opinion need, to pay a doctor to tell me how to handle the situation I’m in. At the end of the day I (for the most part) know what’s happening, know why it’s still happening, but I’m just growing, as you said, frustrated, since I’m not seeing the results I feel I should be. It was only 6 months or so ago that I was still freaking out and would start binging Martin’s YouTube videos. Now it’s more of just a feeling of total acceptance knowing that I’ve done just about all I can do and perhaps I just have I continue to ride (and ride) this out.

You are right though Deb, that this is probably bc subconsciously I am losing hope. I am not opposed to keeping a light diary of what happens every night, but I am just curious what is the clear cut point? To write down what I was feeling when I woke up? It’s either going to be feeling fine and relaxed or just a tad anxious. There really isn’t going to be anything crazy to note IMHO. Last night you could say there was something interesting where I had the urge to look at my phone, but what would be done in that case? Then move the phone to another room? What were these “patterns” you saw that you cut out which helped you? Do you think it’s really possible that me going to bed a bit too early and tossing and turning for the first 20 minutes is contributing to my woes?

Thank you

[Mac0908]

P.S.

I will say one thing I left out, Deb, and this is probably the only “negative” thought that tends to happen to me during onset, especially if I’m in bed early around 10:15p or so. If I haven’t fallen asleep rather quickly, like within 20-30 minutes or so, I’ll start to think about what time it is. Even if I don’t look at the clock, I’ll know, ok, its probably around 11 now…. If I don’t crash soon that will maybe only mean 6 hours of sleep, etc. It’s not a crazy anxious thing that’s happening as I lay there, but these are definitely thoughts that run through my head. I guess I should have let you guys know that. I’m not nervous that I won’t ever fall asleep, but the time issue does in fact still linger in my head at times.

[Deb]

Mac – I really don’t think you’re going to sleep early is causing your troubles. But if it will ease your worries to try it, then move your bed time to later and see if it makes a difference.

The purpose of the sleep diary is to see the relationship between your thoughts and feelings and your sleep. Also, to see if you’re consistently practicing AC and if you are, if there are any small improvements that you can track.

Although you say for the most part you’re relaxed when you wake up, underneath the surface you’re losing hope. This is keeping you from recovering. I remember talking to Dr. Kat and saying how I was relaxed all night but still could not fall asleep. But together we realized that beneath the surface there was tension and fear that ACT wasn’t going to work this time. So this was keeping me awake and from getting any better.

The reason I keep encouraging you to talk to Dr. Kat is to give you hope that people like you, with your particular type of sleep maintenance insomnia, with all of your experiences and struggles with insomnia, have gotten better and healed. I’m sure she’s worked with lots of people and has seen everything, including people like you, and will have faith that you can heal. You need hope now, and I think that even just a sliver of hope is worth it.

[Steve]

Deb – That was an interesting post you did. I just wanted to clarify something. When you say to write down your thoughts after you wake up, you don’t mean write them down right after you wake up, do you? You mean in the morning, right? Or do you mean get up out of bed and write them down right away?

Actually, one thing you said hits the nail on the head for me. You said whenever you try something new you have hope so you start to do better and then relapse when it doesn’t work right away and you get discouraged. That’s exactly what is happening to me. Every time I start something new, I start sleeping better. But when the results start taking too long, I start to get discouraged and my sleep goes downhill again. That is definitely psychological and not biological. I always appreciate your input.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Steve.

[Deb]

Also, Dr. Kat will give you things to do to help with your specific type of insomnia which is different than mine because she has experience working with people with sleep maintenance insomnia.

[Author]

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