[Deb]

Hi Mac – How’s this last week going for you?

[Mac0908]

Hi Deb, long time no speak. Sorry for the long delay in getting back. I had a death in the family over a week ago and it was a rather difficult time. (non Covid related)

That also brought some bad nights to me for a good few days, but I’m happy to report that I’m doing well over the course of the last 4-5 days. We’re almost at a phase 1 reopening here in New York though (mid May estimated) so I’m thinking that will likely bring me back to work in some capacity. I have absolutely loved these work from home days and the beautiful sleep that has come with it. I can only hope and pray that some of the sleep confidence I’ve gained over this last month+ will carry over, but I know it will not be that cut and dry.

How about yourself, Deb? Good nights through and through?

-Mac

[Deb]

Hi Mac – sorry to hear about the death in your family. Glad to hear that overall you’ve been sleeping well. I’m sure you’ve developed some sleep confidence which will help after you go back to work.

I’ve been doing well. It’s been over a month now since I recovered from my relapse. I’be been off schedule a bit the last week since my husband went out of town. That usually happens when he’s gone. I tend to stay up too late. When he’s here he keeps me on schedule. I had one morning when I was surprised to wake up at 10:00! I think I went to bed close to 1:00 the night before. But no problem sleeping the next night although I went to bed a little later than usual around 11:30. ‘Then I got back to my usual wake up time of around 7:30.

How’s everyone else doing? Ron, Manfred, Steve, Gdsmom, Delv and anyone else I haven’t mentioned?

[Manfred]

For me, it is a big up and down. Till Saturday, I had two great weeks. And then I had a dream about sleep anxiety (similar when ex-smokers dream about smoking 🙂 ), and it started all over again.

Anxiety during the day, and in bed, my mind is very “creative”: intrusive, frightenigh thoughts leading to the vicious cycle. Anxiety “telling” me that I am “loosing” it, that this thing will destroy me. It is basically fear of fear then. It really scares me.

I have some questions relating to ACT:
1. Since it is a process that takes some time, how do you behave in the beginning of trying “ACT”? What I mean is the following: accepting, welcoming thoughts.. is not easy to do, so what do you do when u lie in bed and the anxiety hits you and you are stell in the “learning” phase? Do u nevertheless stay in bed the whole night with the anxiety? Or, in the beginning, to you leave bed after a certain time (stimulus control) until you really “master” the techniques?
2. I have read that ACT should not be combined with CBT-I? Why not? Why can’t “accepting, welcoming, mindfulness…” (ACT) not be very helpful with implementing CBT-I?

Thanks a lot for your help – all the best to all of you!!

Manfred

[gsdmom]

Hi Deb and everyone else – I was almost seeing the light! Then had a severe attack of sciatica.
I was at 10 days no Ambien and sleeping normal for 4-5 nights in a row. Internally I felt so much peace. I had been trying to practice mindfulness while just walking quietly with my dog, focusing on sounds. Then 5 nights ago I had such severe back pain I could barely sleep, maybe 3 hours. The next night the same thing, I then took 2 Ambien as one was not working and I was asked to come back into work again, Next night the same thing, but woke up with my upper right leg numb. Went to work for 5 hours, then went to urgent care. I got a Tramadol shot and muscle relaxers. They didn’t help with pain or sleep last night, so I took another ambien. Pain is at its worst lying down. I see the doctor again on Friday, hoping things will improve a little by then. I’ve read this might take a week or two to resolve.I feel better up and walking although my leg feels weird being somewhat numb still. My father started having this in his mid-thirties. His pain came on and off over the years.

[gsdmom]

Manfred – At the beginning of ACT there were some nights I did not sleep because I was so focused on welcoming my thoughts telling myself I am just resting in bed and accepting I have insomnia. I did try to stay in bed all night although it sometimes took a few hours to calm my mind. There might be one or two times I would get up, but just sit for a few moments on a bench in my bedroom, or I’d go downstairs for a cup of water and give myself a little massage because I was often achy being sleep deprived. The longest I’d stay out of bed was about 30 minutes to write in a journal, but that was not very often.

I’d also notice my thoughts during the daytime and practice ACT. Listening to a guided meditation helped relieve some daytime anxiety. For me, relaxing in bed gave me less anxiety and more energy for the day ahead. Having just a little more energy during the day was a huge improvement for me.

[Steve]

gsdmom – Sorry to hear about the pain you are having. I hope it goes away soon so you can get back to sleep.

I am still in the “improving” phase. I was doing way better for the last two weeks until two nights ago when I had setbacks, but that’s to be expected. Still, overall, my body feels better than it did last year at this time. The only problem I am really having now are dizziness and eye problems but that usually comes much later in the day now as I tire out in the evening. I can get about 6 to 6.5 hours most nights but it isn’t in one block. I do still tend to wake up a lot throughout the night but it is heading in a mostly positive direction.

[JAsleep]

Hi Deb and all. I have recently started sleeping through the night regularly which is a great achievement. However, it is a very light sleep and I wake up 4-5 times a night but get back to sleep with moderate difficulty. This has been going on for about a week. Very frustrating. For those of you who are better, did you experience fragmented sleep and how did it resolve itself?

[Deb]

Manfred – When I had anxiety in bed, I used welcoming and then the anxiety went away. But if the anxiety was overwhelming, then I would get up and write in my journal. So I would say to do whatever works to calm yourself down. About not combing ACT with CBT: With ACT you’re not trying to build up the sleep drive – the focus is on learning to relax in bed so that you naturally fall asleep. So as long as you have a reasonable sleep window, you should do fine. Sometimes having a strict sleep window can cause more anxiety, so that’s why it’s best not to combine it with ACT. But if you just can’t get over the sleep anxiety, then maybe it’s best to do CBT alone. CBT reduces the sleep anxiety when you start sleeping consistently through using SR and SC. So if you can’t “think” yourself out of the anxiety using ACT, then do CBT where you stop thinking and just focus on the doing. Just do it like a robot, like Martin says.

Gdsmom – sorry you’re having so much pain. Hopefully you’ll find a solution to this. I had back pain for 30 years. Then I finally found a physical therapist who used a type of therapy that worked. I still have the predisposition to the back problem but I do exercises everyday which prevent it from getting painful.

Steve – glad that you’re getting better over time.

JA – That is a great achievement that you’re sleeping through the night! You are on your way to recovery! What you’re going through is normal and is what I experienced. I went from staying awake until 3 or 4 (or longer) to finally falling asleep within a reasonable amount of time on a regular basis. But I was in light sleep with lots of dreams or waking up a lot. I realized that even though consciously I was no longer worrying about falling asleep because I was falling asleep quickly, on an unconscious level, my brain was still on high alert after the months of the insomnia trauma. It took some time for that part of my brain to finally settle down and my sleep to deepen and become normal. The worse thing you can do is worry about the light sleep. That’s what I did my first go around with ACT and thus prolonged the process. When I finally talked to a sleep doctor and was reassured that light sleep was normal in the beginning of the healing process, then I just accepted it and over time it resolved itself.

[Mac0908]

Such a beautiful thing to be sleeping rather well again. I go to bed at night with no worries at all lately. Working from home has turned into a joy. I wake around 7, and literally start working in my bed the first half hour or so lol. No alarm, no shower, no hair, no shaving, no nothing. I know this type of sleep won’t carry over completely to when I return to work and my 6am alarm is staring me in the face every night again, but I just hope that somehow someway I’ve restored enough sleep confidence to where it won’t be a brutal transition. Hope all is well with everyone.

[Deb]

Yay! Glad you’re sleeping so well, Mac. Me too!

[Mac0908]

Hey everyone, just checking in again. How’s everyone doing with Covid? Are your cities reopened yet? Here in New York we are still technically locked down with even Phase 1 another two weeks away, it seems.

I’ve been sleeping well. Had a bad night on Tuesday and spent Weds as a zombie for the first time in quite a while. But when you don’t have a 6am work alarm to continue having to wake up to anymore, its easier for me to recover. Weds and Thurs night I was back to sleeping well.

Still though, I fear the return to the office and the return to normal life only bc of the potential sleep issues again. All of these weeks I’ve been waking at 7am, sometimes 7:30! I don’t want to alter anything right now but I feel like in preparation of returning to the 6am alarm days I should maybe start waking a tad earlier. Just a bad feeling knowing that struggles almost definitely lay ahead after such (mostly) beautiful sleep over the course of the last 2 months…

[Deb]

Hi Mac – I’m still sleeping well and glad that you are too except for the one bad night. I had one night where I went to bed way too late, around 1:00, and I was overtired. I tend to do this sometimes when my husband is out of town. He’s been gone for over two weeks and will continue to be gone indefinitely for awhile. His mom is in the hospital. Unfortunately he can’t visit her. Anyway, the late night messed up my mind and I didn’t sleep well that night. But by the following night I was back to normal. I think in a way that my 3 relapses helped me, because when I have a brief relapse like this one night, I have more confidence in getting back to normal because I’ve done it before.

We’ve opened up here in Alabama. I’m still not going out to restaurants or church where there will be groups of people. But I couldn’t stand it anymore after being completely alone for over two weeks and started visiting again with my two kids and grandkids. They came over and visited with me last night for a belated Mother’s Day celebration. It was very nice.

[gsdmom]

Hi Mac – so glad to know you are sleeping better. Do you feel more mentally sharp during the day and have more energy? Or is your body still recovering from sleep deprivation? What about the dark circles? Back in March, a few hours before the shut down here in CA, I went to a Medspa and had a conservative amount of filler put in my cheeks. I feel it helped the bags a bit, but dark circles are still there. May try some tear trough filler, we’ll see if still needed once I start sleeping well for a month or so. I’m in my late 50’s so sleep deprived or not, people my age start losing some collagen and the skin sags.

As far as Covid goes, in my county retail is supposed to be open for curbside pick up, but I haven’t tried that yet. A few restaurants that had just closed have started opening for take out for limited hours. I was rehired May 1st and we allow document drop off in a tax office.

My sleep started to improve in late April. Then I had extreme lower back pain and I couldn’t sleep through it so I took Ambien for a couple of nights then went to urgent care. They told me I had sciatica. Also had pain and numbness at the same time on my right leg. A week later I developed a rash – it turns out I have shingles. The dormant chickenpox virus that lingers in you spinal column reactivated. I went to urgent care again, and they gave me meds to reduce the symptoms of shingles. The pain from shingles is severe, shooting and stabbing pain. My skin rash luckily is mild, not itchy. However, researching the side effects from the med, Valtrex, it said it may cause disturbed sleep, like insomnia!! Initially, I was just feeling weird on this med, then into the 3rd day I got insomnia, the 4th day along with insomnia had tachycardia and started getting panic attacks. The side effects from the med were worse than the shingles so I skipped my final daily dose and then fell asleep very quickly, even though tossing and turning in pain. I was also given muscle relaxers, but they are awful too, so barely took them. Now I just alternate between for Tylenol and Advil for pain. I have about 1-2 weeks more recovery from shingles, hoping to stay off the meds. The doctor said shingles is often brought on by stress. Well, I’d say being sleep deprived for a year is stressful. She got upset that I took an Ambien to sleep for pain instead of a muscle relaxer. I brought up that I had insomnia for a year, and the doctor didn’t seem to care. In general, it seems doctors don’t take this issue seriously, only the people in the healing arts like accupuncture or yoga instructors, etc have responded to me how important sleep is for your well-being. I am thankful for the people here that totally understand how awful insomnia can be.

[Mac0908]

Hi Gsd. Whenever I have a good night I always have more energy, absolutely.

Been struggling the last few nights now, suddenly. I haven’t had bad nights but I’ve been dealing with a few early awakenings like in the pre work from home days. Not having to wake for work at 6am has helped as I can continue laying in bed til basically whenever instead of the usual early awakening where I’d also have the thought of “oh shoot, i gotta be up soon” thought.

That being said I haven’t been getting GOOD sleep the last 3 nights and I kinda know what it’s from which is the mere THOUGHT (and realization) that the work from home days are coming to an end. It has increased my anxiety as of late. We were told last week that we will likely be returning to the office in early June. I know it sounds ridiculous at this stage, someone like me who by this point you think would be able to have my sleep anxiety under control but is now suddenly feeling a little weird when looking at a clock at night around 10pm thinking, damn, in a couple of weeks from now I’ll be back to that feeling of well, you kinda have to be getting ready for bed soon, and ready to wake up at 6am and all that comes with that (i.e. back to showering first thing in the AM, shaving, getting dressed, driving to the office on the road at 6:45am, etc).

But as much as I should be past these types of thoughts by now, it doesn’t change the fact that I’ve been dealing with this problem for years and the damage that has done to me mentally is simply just too hard to erase over the course of 2 months IMO. This is why many times I’ve said I don’t feel like i will be truly healed until a day comes where I have a job that allows me to permanently wake up later. Let’s be honest, this work from home situation has been a treat. A special thing.

I really need to calm myself as much as I can today and start mentally trying to tell myself it’s going to be ok, return to the office or not. How I’m going to do that i’m not sure, but I’m open to suggestions…

• This reply was modified 4 years, 6 months ago by Mac0908.

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