[DrummerFrank]

Hey Mac.. I have the complete opposite feeling.. The lack of work is what put me into this insomnia nightmare for 2 months now.. I love my job, and had a consistent 11PM-6AM bed routine every day, sometimes pushing it to 7AM on weekends, but I was fairly consistent.. With the lockdown, my sleep schedule is all over the place, but since finding Martin, I’ve been trying to be a bit more consistent.. Last night, was pretty rough for me.. I fell asleep early, but it wasn’t a deep sleep.. Then I woke up, and was up for hours, and then I went back to bed tossing and turning, and having to pee quite often.. I recall having a very weird dream during all of this.. I’d say I got 2 hours of rest/sleep max, but the weird thing is, I’m still operational during the day.. I still workout and get my daily tasks done.. That’s something Martin would approve of, as we can’t let the insomnia defeat us, and make us bed ridden all day.. I’m of the mindset that I won’t be fully cured of this until I get my job back.. I’ve taken supplements and drugs to help me during this time, but nothing helps me stay asleep.. The staying asleep part has been the real challenge.. I feel for anyone that’s been going through this even longer than I have.. It sucks!

[Mac0908]

How’s everyone doing? Good sleep has returned for me again, for almost a full week straight now after the minor setback of a few rough nights in a row. I’ve since accepted the fact that I will soon be returning to the office, and that’s that. The next (and huge) hurdle however, will be when I actually DO in fact return, and subsequently have to return to my real wake time of 6am.

It’s been a beautiful thing sleeping in and working from home. An absolutely beautiful thing. But I would be lying if I didn’t say I was afraid of what might come with this sleep wise. I’ve been sleeping the best I ever have in years during this 2 month work from home stint, but thing were never really perfect and I still do not consider myself 100% healed. Really is kind of scary how just a week ago again I was struggling with sleep anxiety and being exhausted. I almost feel like I should have a “game plan” for when I go back to work but at the same time that’s really not ACT now, is it..

[delv-x]

Hi Mac,

I was doing quite well. Early March I was told we’d be working from home. I was worried that it would screw things up having a couch close to me and the lack of social water cooler interaction. Well, for the most part most days were satisfactory and knowing I don’t have an hour commute helped so I can stay up a little longer if I want to and know I can rest in bed a bit longer. Most days I would and have no trouble. Some days weren’t as good but was easily salvaged by simply relaxing/resting and then poof another hour or two of sleep. I would say a consistent 6.5-8.5 hours a night with an average of about 7-7.5. Confidence was high and no supplements or pills during that time. Little worry about sleep actually.

3 nights ago I fell asleep fine but couldn’t get back to sleep. I was getting the self monitoring/sleep starts. 2 nights ago I had onset and maintenance and took 1/2 of a pill. Last night I was in bed for about 2 hours and had to get out of bed to reset. Was out for about 45 minutes and not really sleepy. Tired yes, sleepy no. Again, 1/2 pill and was up at 7AM and wanted to push another 1.5 hours of sleep with no luck.

I guess I feel like I am trying to force/control sleep when things start to fall off the rails. I also do nothing and just let my mind wander and hope to drift off but I guess I just have this tension and nervousness that accompanies these bouts. We’ll see how long this lasts.

I can’t help put try to determine the reason but just boil it down to just random cycles and try not to fix it by trying new or spending too much effort.

I do worry a bit about going back to the office but I do like the structure and although sometimes I am a zombie, it forces my body to stick to a schedule and say “You want to sleep? Well you will have plenty of opportunity at 11PM”

One last point, over the last 2 months and longer. I would listen to my body unlike strict CBT-I. I do get waves of sleepiness and sometimes it’s a welcome from the constant wired but tired feeling so it I can lay down for 30 minutes and know I passed right out and got a power nap, not only does it re-engergize me, it gives me confidence that I can sleep.

Deb, how are you doing?

[Mac0908]

Nice to hear from you and to read your update Delv. You can never force or control your sleep. That I’ve learned no matter what throughout my recovery journey of insomnia. If I ever have my eyes closed and it hits me that hey, i’m just NOT that tired, i’ll open them up and just rest until I get tired again. I used to be the opposite, thinking well oh no, it’s 11:30pm and I have to be up at 6, i better get to sleep NOW. No. Doesn’t work that way. Will only create more anxiousness.

Yes some nights i’ll toss and turn a lot until sleep eventually comes, but it’s ok. Point is to not let yourself get frustrated. You are right that it really does boil down to cycles. They will happen. You can’t get too upset. I had a cycle of 3-4 nights just last week! You’ve made progress it seems and I’m happy to see that. You’re still recovering after all though and it seems like your next big ‘test’ like mine, will be when we return to office life where instead of just relaxing during an awakening and ending up in another hour or two from sleep, now you know you gotta be up and heading to the office soon. It’s going to be a challenge for our, or anyone’s mental “battle” in recovering from this horrible condition.

[Deb]

Good to hear from you, Delv. Glad you’re overall doing a lot better even though you’ve had some setbacks. My sleep has been pretty good in general, but I know that I’m still prone to some anxiety and have experienced some the last couple of weeks. Like last night. I was tired when I went to bed but a little anxiety crept in. I didn’t really feel like I slept the first few hours but I probably had some light sleep during that time. I woke at 8:00 this morning and am a little groggy, but not too bad. I’ll be fine today and won’t need a nap.

In general, when I feel this anxiety I try to avoid any compensatory behaviors like getting up or taking a pill or having a drink, because it’s just making things worse by teaching my mind to be dependent on something instead of learning to just let go and relax. Overall I think I’m doing better though because in the past this could have triggered a full blown relapse. Instead, I’ll just let that go, continue to relax at night and will get back to sleeping pretty normally again.

Mac – glad you’ve had this long spell of good sleep. I’m sure as a result, you will have more confidence when you have to get up early again.

[delv-x]

Yep, the test will be the going back to work and knowing you have to be up early and stay there all day.

I am definitely grateful for the long stretch I had. I had some downs of course but it was just a matter of not worrying, still feeling sleepy and just laying there and falling back to sleep. The last 2 nights were just not happening and I hate when I do take something to compensate. I know I’ve been able to sleep without anything for weeks/months.

I let go and relax but sometimes it just ain’t happening and I do my best to not get frustrated and just be calm about it.

[Manfred]

I am struggling again. Sleep anxiety is back. This constand up and down is hard.

How do you deal with the toll insomnia/anxiety/worrying takes on your mood? Didn’t u get depressive? That is my “other fear” now. My oh my.

Thanks for your input.

[delv-x]

Yes it can be lonely and isolating. Keep in mind that these bouts are temporary and as long as you don’t try to perpetuate the issue by trying to think about it or fix it, it will resolve quicker.

As for the anxiety and worry. It’s very common and the tug of war on what started what. The worry and anxiety or the insomnia. If you can find activities you like doing to pass the time or spend time with family and friends, it will help with those low days.

[gsdmom]

delv-x – self-monitoring is tricky for me too. When doing that I’m usually not even anxious, just over active mind. Like you I find getting out of bed to reset can help. I usually go downstairs and get some water or make tea and sit in the dark for about 15 minutes. And I totally understand how you can feel disappointment when taking 1/2 pill for sleep, trying to balance the need to feel rested but drugged vs sleep deprivation.

Manfred – my mood is generally more on the anxiety side rather than depressive, However last month I had this ah-ha moment when I realized I was in depression, and once that happened and I could recognize it I really worked on changing my perspective about things. Hope you can have patience and stay hopeful.

My bout with shingles is almost over, I still have mild numbness and pain at the same time along the nerve path from my lower back to the right leg that has left me physically weaker than normal. I have not been on any medications for 8 days. I’ve come to realize how extremely sensitive my nervous system is. The valtrex for shingles gave me insomnia, anxiety and body pains, even the tylenol and advil for pain made me feel blah and bloated. Other than HRT, I’m on no other prescription or OTC drugs and hope to stay that way. I’m at least getting some decent stretches of deep sleep, usually 5.5 hours and then it feels like an hour to 1.5 hours of light sleep.

I am continuing to do things to calm my nervous system; listening to guided meditations, practice mindfulness while walking even if just for a few moments, doing the “welcoming” at night as needed as I need it less and less which is good. It has become easier to be objective about upsetting situations and “letting go”. I’m hoping the acupuncture lounge will open up again soon as I found that to be soothing too. Wishing everyone a restful sleep tonight!

[Mac0908]

Went to bed around 11p last night and woke WAYYY too early for a Saturday, 5:45am. I knew it was not good so I just told myself to relax and just, well, go back to sleep. I then fell back asleep and woke at 7:30am. 6 months ago and obviously 1 year or two ago it would be very very rare that would happen. But today it felt normal. It felt like the old days. You wake too early, no big deal, just go back to bed. Easier said than done for many on here, I know, but I guess I’m happy to say that things CAN improve with the right circumstances and with the right tools.

[Chen Liang]

Hello guys i am new here. I was just reading about you guys talk about ACTi and CBTi. I have sleep issue for years that i can go sleepless for many days i think the cause is deeply in the anxious side. Even when fallen asleep i usually slept a little . My life has been a wreck . I now given benzodiazepine and when i read about you guys sleeping without pills i feel jealous. I need advice. Should i taper off and which should i choose cbti or acti . My insomnia is caused by anxious thought about sleep and about sleeplessness i keep trying to sleep or falling asleep because of sleep deprivation i am so desperate to sleep everyday. How to deal with this mindset?

[Chen Liang]

I also want to ask to Deb your ACTi testimony is amazing but i have lots of question if its okay with you.
1. Isnt ACTi is actually in another word mean that we become brave to face our sleeplessness?
2. When we lie down on bed what are we thinking? Or letting the thought run wherever it go?
3. About mindfulness and welcoming. I am confused about this in the book by guy meadow. So when the thought of worry about sleep come we do mindfulness to distract that thought to our body so we can forget about the thought or we do welcoming by letting the thought and feeling run free?
Thank you if you want to reply about this it is really helpfull.

[Deb]

Hi Chen – welcome to our group. Sorry you’ve struggled so long with insomnia. To answer your questions:

1. Yes, ACT means that we stop struggling with our sleeplessness and accept it. By stopping the struggle and worry, then we start falling asleep naturally.
2. We let our minds wander, not thinking about anything particular.
3. When the thought of worry comes, we don’t try to distract ourselves or make it go away. We welcome it by trying to befriend it so that it loses its power. We don’t let it take over us though and remind ourselves that it’s just a thought. So for example, when I felt worried, I imagined my worry as a round, furry, red-faced little guy, all scrunched up with worry. When I thought of it in this way then I felt sorry for it and the thought lost its power and disappeared.

About which method to choose, it depends. With CBT-I, you focus on actions, the 2 methods of sleep restriction and getting up when you can’t sleep. When you start having success, then naturally your anxiety starts to decrease. With ACT, you work on your thinking and learning to calm yourself down. If you think you’ll have a hard time letting go of the anxiety, then go with CBT-I. Later you can incorporate some of the elements of ACT if CBT-I is not completely healing you of the insomnia. That’s what some have done here, like Mac. Either way takes time to work. Once you start, let us know how you’re doing and we’ll support you here so that you can hang in there. Also, Martin Reed, the founder of this website is a great coach to help you with CBT-I.

About the pills, for myself I had to give them up completely. Guy Meadows says to do it gradually if you need to. So I don’t really know what the correct answer is. Maybe it depends on your situation.

Any other comments from the rest of you for Chen? How are you all doing – Mac, Delv, Steve?

[Chen Liang]

Deb thank you for the reply. So what you mean by acceptance is whether you are sleepless or sleeping you accept your fate then? If you already accept whatever happen then you will not worry but if there is worry coming you just let it be there and sit with it? I am currently doing CBTi but after taking my meds of its been days i have not slept. This only heightened my anxiety but i keep saying accept if i dont sleep its fine i wont die. I want to ask something where some people seldom ask. At night when sleep time come then you get into bed and your head hit the pillow do you think about “ okay i want to sleep” or you think about something else? Because i read when you think about i want to sleep it increase the arousal system. So i wonder when people are sleepy at night and they want to go to bed dont they think about “okay i want to sleep” which is supposed to heighten the arousal? How can you go to bed without thinking i want to sleep?

[Deb]

Hi Chen – It’s normal to think “I want to sleep” when you go to bed. But a normal persons knows that they will fall asleep eventually, so they don’t continue to have that thought anymore and their mind relaxes and wanders until they do fall asleep.

That’s correct that you accept whether or not you will sleep that night. But you don’t accept or allow just anything, like worrying, to take over your mind. Worrying will only keep you awake. So you’ve got to find a way to let go of the worry. This is what mindfulness and “welcoming” is helpful with. Through mindfulness, you create some “space” between “You” and your thoughts and feelings. Then they lose power. Through welcoming and making the worry not such a big deal, it loses its power and then will disappear. Once your mind is calm, then you lay there and do nothing and let your mind relax and wander, and eventually you will fall asleep. Maybe not the first night, but probably by the second night you will sleep at least a few hours, even if the sleep is light. This is the beginning of things returning to normal.

[Author]

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