[Mac0908]

In my honest opinion SRT makes things worse before they get better (usually), so short term, yes. But as far as long goes (and I do mean long term, as in sticking with SRT for 2-3 months) it should absolutely start to kill off your sleep anxiety overall. At least that is what happened with me over the course of several waves of SRT. I was so anxious about sleep that there was no other way to start aside from SRT. Then I eventually moved onto ACT once my anxiety levels were brought down to a reasonable degree.

[Odinsky]

Mac. You and I sound similar based on what I’ve read here. Personally I have had 3 bouts of insomnia in 8 months. Each lasting progressively longer. Each time I recovered using ACT, and spending more time in bed. And I recovered to 8 hours of sleep, just to suddenly lose it after one single bad night. And then all my ACT work starts to fall apart as things get progressively worse. For some reason it’s not allowing me to stay on top of things and recover from slip ups. I have made a ton of headway with ACT which is why im unsure if I should continue with it once again this time, or just try SRT this time. How much did you limit your sleep window to? Did you get into that 15 minutes adding and subtracting etc.. or just kind of ballpark things ?

[Mac0908]

I always had my window at around 11:30p-6a. I wasn’t super strict insane with it though. Definitely did a ballpark thing. If I felt I was doing well, then maybe after a week or two yeah then I’d head to bed at 11:15pm or even 11pm. If I slept in on weekends to 6:30am right away that was ok, but I made sure not to go too later. My problem was letting my SRT fade away too soon. Meaning if I was doing ok for 2-3 weeks, then the whole sleep window thing was gone and I’d just make sure to not sleep in too much on weekends and to not go to sleep TOO early. Ultimately as tempting as it is, if you were a serious insomniac you MUST stick to SRT for quite some time. You can’t just have a good 2-3 weeks like I did and then forget about it because it will likely come right back.

[Odinsky]

Thanks for the reply. So I guess my last concern is – will SRT un-do some of the work I did with ACT and ultimately just make me a nervous wreck? It did last night. I just don’t know if I should keep it up, or abandon ship and hope I can somehow pull out again just using ACT and lots of time in bed. The thing is. I know I Can sleep because I’ve recovered before. I feel pretty calm during the day as well, it’s just as soon as I lay my head on the pillow I lose the ability to let go and accept and I’m consumed by my thoughts and feelings. They rush Over me and I literally will sweat through my sheets as I lay in a half sleep half awake state.

[Mac0908]

Odinsky, it certainly seems like SRT is making you into a nervous wreck just by the vibe of your posts. That being said I dont know your story or where your head is really truly at. What’s the summary of your situation? How long have you been dealing with insomnia/what caused it, etc?

[Odinsky]

Thanks for asking. So it started October 2019. I moved to a new state with my wife and son. We wanted to follow our dream of living on the beach. My new job is extremely stressful though. Whereas my old one was really easy. And when we got here, we were staying in a busy city and apartment, Which we were not used to. We had previously lived on a farm with peaceful surroundings. The neighbors upstairs in the new apartment were so loud I couldn’t sleep and I was just overwhelmed. Overwhelmed with work, with the apartment life, missing family and friends and the land. One night it’s like a switch flipped. Couldn’t sleep anymore. I used a benzo for a few days and sleep returned. Quit the benzo. Bought a house, and one day after moving into the house on the beach I thought, what if this happens again? And it did. This time for many months. It was excruciating. Ultimately I took a benzo again and pulled out of it. I quit the benzo and I slept well for 3 months until a month ago. I had one night where I woke up after 10 min of falling asleep. And felt real nervous. I could barely get back to sleep that night. But I did. Next night, I was extra nervous, and i tried to go to bed early (big mistake in hindsight) I slept even less. This continued on until I am at the point today where it’s been a month Now of worse and worse sleep every single day. Every day I practice mindfulness and ACT and realize all my missteps previously trying to control and how I tried to go to bed early etc. but even armed with this info now, it doesn’t seem to help! I can manage some minimal sleep if I spend 8 hours in bed, but I’m still so tired. I’ve had 1 or two all nighters as well. Where I literally am such a mess I don’t sleep at all. I know lots of people think they don’t sleep and they do. But I mean it. I’m wide awake laying there eyes open. I just can’t believe I’m back in this situation again. We have a great life. Life in the beach. Followed our dreams and I feel like this is taking everything away from me! I just don’t know what approach to utilize to move past this. I feel like I’m broken and just somehow will live the rest of my life like this. I know that’s just a thought. But I’m so overwhelmed. It’s hard to stay on top of ACT/mindfulness when your whole body aches and you feel everything is slipping from your control. My job is so hard to do when this tired. And my wife doesn’t know what to think. She’s half annoyed and half comforting.

[Deb]

Also, Odinsky – what did you do before to recover from your bouts? You said that you used ACT. So what exactly what did you do? And what was happening during those 8.5 hours in bed while you slept 5 hours?

I personally think that using SRT will only increase your anxiety. With ACT you learn to relax in bed. So it seems to me that you have to remember how you were finally able to relax in bed and recover from your relapses.

[Odinsky]

Deb- I previously had sleep maintenance and to recover When I woke in the middle of the night I did deep breathing exercises. Took some drugs And focused on being kind to myself. I Allowed naps to curb daytime anxiety about the upcoming nights. Basically did everything the opposite of what they say to do! I was able to quit the drugs and was sleeping great and most nights I was able to fall back asleep eventually. But every single night before going to bed I was still nervous. It was always in the back of my mind. In hindsight I felt like I was holding on by a thread. Like I didn’t really learn about my insomnia. I just took some drugs , napped and learned some relaxation techniques and learned to navigate the middle of the night wakenings and how to fall back asleep.

But now I have sleep onset. It’s a whole other beast. The horrifying thing about onset is I have tons and tons of nights of no sleep at all now. I didn’t think it was possible to go so long without any sleep. If I fall asleep for a few hours right away, it seems I have an ok night. But fewer and fewer nights now Am I able to fall asleep. It takes several hours. Sometimes 4 to 5. Laying in bed for 8.5 hours gives me a few hours of sleep this way. I’m heavy into reading Guy Meadows and meditation. I’ve learned to watch thoughts and accept. Turn feelings into little objects etc. this works great during the day but so soon as I go and lay down, I’m bombarded. Absolutely overwhelmed by thoughts and extreme nervousness. I feel like I’m on a rollercoaster. And As soon as I go an hour or two without being able to fall asleep, it’s like a death spiral. ACT and mindfulness take me hours and hours to pull myself out of the spiral and get some sleep. So I was thinking of SRT. To increase drive. But it definitely has made me even more nervous. Ugh sorry this is such a Long reply. Hanging on by a thread here !

[Deb]

Sounds difficult, Odinsky. Laying in bed for hours with terrible anxiety is not going to help at all. ACT worked for me because I knew how to get into that quiet, peaceful state and just stay there in that state all night if necessary. Then if I was really tired in the morning, I would take a short nap during the day to get a second wind to get me through the day.

Since you can’t calm your mind right now using ACT, maybe it would be better to try SRT. You have to stick with it though for awhile to begin to see results. Maybe try it for 2 or 3 weeks to see how it goes. Also, watch Martin’s videos because he’s the expert on this.

[Mac0908]

Odinsky I feel for you. You sound like me when I was stuck in the middle of the peak of this hell that ruined my life for so long. Your new surroundings, job, etc, sound like one of the classic potential insomnia triggers. By the sound of it, mindfulness has not been working and likely will not be enough for you right now anyway. While it may scare you to take on the task, I highly suggest SRT in order to get you sleeping again and ultimately regaining some of your sleep confidence. This won’t happen overnight but it will help start the process. I hear you about your wife not being totally comforting. I think I speak for everyone here that insomnia is absolutely one of those things that falls under “you have to live it to understand”.

Whatever you decide to do I hope it works out but SRT is the way I would go. Only thing is, as I said above and as Martin would tell you if you signed up for his course, you must stick to it.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by Mac0908.

[Mac0908]

Side topic for Deb, really… last night I actually had my first rough night in about 3 weeks. Interestingly enough, last night I went to bed earlier than I have been in quite some time. While 11pm-ish has been the new normal bedtime for me during this work from home phase, last night I just felt kinda run down and went in my bed at 10p. I casually browsed on my phone and relaxed and eventually crashed around what I believe was 11 anyway. But as you know Deb going in your bed at 11 and hanging in bed for an hour beforehand can be two very different things in our worlds.

Anyway, a bunch of light/disturbed sleep later and I awoke feeling very unrested. I knew it was a flat out bad night. Not a big deal, but yeah, even one of these still stings, hurts, and quickly reminds me of what I used to be. I can’t stress just how nervous I am about returning to work, Deb. I think by nature waking up at 6am is not that common or normal, and if there’s one thing I’ve realized about my body/self during this very unusual last 2.5 months of working from home, its that 11pm feels like “my time” for bed. So often pre covid/work from home I’d go in bed around 10:30p as you know, and while sleepy sure, there’s no doubt that part of our brains are just programmed to “get to bed” at a certain time when we know we have to be up at the crack of dawn for work. Having my new ‘wake up whenever’ type of mindset has basically all but cured my insomnia(though I must start work no later than 7:30am). Really is amazing how it’s all worked out. Not sure what my gameplan will be once I return, but I feel I should start thinking about it.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by Mac0908.

[Deb]

I’m lucky I can sleep in until 7:30 or 8:00 if I need to. I probably would still be struggling with insomnia if it weren’t for that. Any word on when you have to go back to the office, Mac?

[Mac0908]

Seems like it will be early July, once New York City enters “phase 3” of reopening.

[Chen Liang]

Hi mac and deb and everyone- yes the anxiety about sleep in my head is high. I have nothing to do during the day in this quarantine and my head keep spinning asking about sleep. Here is my issue the chronic insomnia i have started 4 years and this last years i went to a shrink and nightly i am prescribed benzo you know this is not good. I slept tho but the feeling of natural sleep and drug induced is so different. I talk about this with martin i said how can i do the SRT? i am scared. why i am scared? :
1. What is the point of CBTi if i am not confident with my natural ability to sleep i am still using meds and the doctor wont taper off because she saw me nervous breakdown.
2. When i dont use the meds i can days maybe weeks without sleep.
3. It can take months of SRT to see result and i dont know whether i can stick to it when i have 0 sleep every night.

Guys i am so deep in the spiral of sandman insomnia here. I really want to get out but everywhere i see it seems there is no hope. Mac you say SRT take months to work and kill the anxiety my head cant imagine the pain and anxiety of zero sleep each day will be i am already tired and its like going to more torture with SRT , but somehow i feel there is no other way. what is your thought about this.

[Chen Liang]

Today i just learned about many type of insomnia…. my type of insomnia is psychophysiological insomnia…. you can google it out. Does CBTi and ACTi help with this type of insomnia?

[Author]

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