[JakeAwake]

Hi all,

I’m not a client, but I’m a regular reader of this forum, and a fan of Martin’s videos. I’ve experienced a number of bouts of insomnia since 2014, which have always passed, and when I’m sleeping well, I really sleep well. Unfortunately, I started sleeping poorly last November, and it got really bad in December, with at least one or two zero sleep nights per week, and the remainder being a real struggle. I re-read my old copy of Dr Guy Meadows sleep book, watched more of Martin’s content, and started to implement ACTi techniques. I also cut out alcohol entirely. And sure enough, my sleep started to improve in January and February, to the point where I was struggling only once a week or so, and pulling an all-nighter only once a fortnight. So really, a big improvement. At that point I went back to drinking a little wine with my evening meal, only ever a glass or so, and nothing excessive. And but for a couple of rough nights, my sleep remained excellent.

I know, however, that relying on alcohol long term for sleep is not feasible, not healthy, and in any case I actually feel like I’m losing the taste for it (I’m 53). So I cut it out again, completely. And my sleep has gone haywire. Again. Presently I’m sleeping 8 hours for a night or two, then a zero sleep night – and the pattern repeats. I feel so disheartened, and like all the progress I made at the beginning of the year was for nothing. My confidence is my ability to sleep consistently, night to night, which had only begun to repair, is now shot, my sleep anxiety is back, and the prospect of having to start again from scratch fills me with dread.

Nevertheless, I’m getting on with my life and work as best I can, one day at a time, and I refuse to take sleeping pills of any kind – for obvious reasons. I know I’ll get through this, eventually, but it’s such a tough slog. I’m curious, has anyone here been in the “pendulum”, night on night off pattern, and if so how did you get out of it? And any words of uplift or advice for someone who’s feeling particularly hopeless about their sleep right now?

With thanks.

[Scott]

Hi Jake – thanks for sharing your story!

You mentioned grappling with sleep-related anxiety and exploring ACT-I. How’s your journey with it been? Have you been able to discern the distinctions between the nights you sleep soundly and those that prove challenging? Do you feel like you’re putting unnecessary pressure on yourself to sleep?

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[hiker]

Hi JakeAwake, I can relate to the pendulum thing, where you think you are back to square one. I have no doubt it seems that way. If I have a rough patch, sometimes if only one or two nights, sometimes I have felt like a complete failure. Forget that I have slept well in the past; that’s in the past.

These feelings can be powerful, but that doesn’t make them true. This can be difficult to discern when I am hammered by insomnia. I just can’t think straight.

But it’s not back to square one, because eventually I recall some of the skills I have acquired. One is to stop trying to think my way out of “the problem.” Instead of trying to dissect and analyze my mind, I just sit back and watch it.

Observing instead of believing thoughts can provide some space. The alternative: being at the mercy of whatever next pops into your head. This is a big component of mindfulness, and also Martin’s course, where he talks about acknowledging unpleasant thoughts and emotions (granted, you wish they weren’t there in the first place).

I’ll probably have bad sleep nights in the future. In fact, I can count on it. No one sleeps great every night. But I know if I can eventually remember to step back from it, I will be okay.

Take care, you are not alone in this.

[JakeAwake]

I probably am putting some pressure on myself, Scott, yes – in my desire for consistent sleep from night to night. It all feels so uncertain at the moment. Thankfully the pendulum pattern has petered out, but I’m still pulling all-nighters (last night, for example), then three nights before that. The two nights in between I slept perfectly.

And Hiker, I appreciate your perspective. One of my problems, I feel, is that all the good sleep I’ve had in the past doesn’t seem to reinforce my confidence in my ability to sleep well (relatively speaking) all the time, moving into the future. I suppose it’s just going to be a matter of time. I am also paying more attention to the way I react to my sleepless nights, as I know I can get through the next day with minimal impairment to my activities or work (though my emotions can feel all over the place as I go about my daily business, and frankly, I feel horrible). But, I just keep going, and sleep like the dead the next night(s).

None of us are alone in this, as you say – a fact I frequently dwell on as I lie in bed fretting at 3am – and no doubt we’ll all one day come out the other end stronger for the ordeal. In the meantime, courage!

[spunkyspangler]

i think it would be a great idea to keep a sleep time journal, and write down all the positive nights. something about putting pen to paper strengths the belief system so i understand

even when u dont get a great sleep, u can always frame it in a positive way such as

“i got two hours sleep last night but that means it was probably the deep restorative sleep as my brain knows best. i will enjoy my day and this will allow me to build up my sleep drive for an awesome night of sleep tonight”

something along that i would say and the u can always go back and read your journal which will be a reminder in writing !!

hope that helps

spunky

[JakeAwake]

I have actually been keeping a record of my sleep since last December when it went off the rails, Spunky. It’s pretty basic info, but I usually note whether I fell asleep on the couch (which I do frequently) before I go to bed, whether I’ve had any alcohol that night, whether I had difficulty getting to sleep (and if so, what time I fell asleep), whether I had no sleep at all (which has been frequent of late, alas), and then a rating of the night overall – from lousy to perfect. I do find it reassuring to go back and review how things have been, as I’ve had lots of good (perfect) sleep nights, mixed in with the lousy and no sleep nights, during this particular bout of insomnia. But, I find it can also add performance pressure to sleep well, and it can make me start to feel anxious, particularly as the evening falls. It’s actually getting to the point where I’m wondering whether I should stop keeping records, and just accept my nights as they come, without diarising it. Do good sleepers do this? No, they don’t. And at heart, I still consider myself a good sleeper, as, when I’m calm and not hyper-aroused, I sleep just fine, and feel refreshed when I wake – mostly. In short, I’m wondering whether recording and rating each night is “giving air” to insomnia, and fanning its flames. What do you think?

[Chee2308]

Hello @jakeawake

I would just completely forget about how I slept on any particular night and do away from all that, what I deem, as useless sleep journaling. Because it’s extremely likely that one year, six months, 3 months maybe even a few weeks from now, you would have completely forgotten how your sleep was on X day, Y month and Z year anyway. Unless of course, your journal might remind you of it, but at that point, would it still be of any use to you at all? I go about my life expecting to sleep between x and y hours, exact numbers aren’t important, in a cycle that continues until the end of my natural life where I expect to get unlimited amounts of it so no point missing it badly now or putting my life on hold just over it.

[spunkyspangler]

just my opinion from what i have heard from martin and other CBTI practioners, i am not saying give yourself a “rating”, what i am saying is that by putting pen to paper in a positive way of seeing things as i mentioned about, i can see it doing any harm. they say people who put pen to paper average a 42% higher successs rate in achieving their goals !

u mentioned about good sleepers what they do and u are right they do absolutely NOTHING !!

before my trigger went off a few months back i was a great sleeper, could drink double expressors of coffee while eating a pizza and have no problems going to sleep etc

what i thing the difference is now for me anyway is that this trigger went off and i responded to it in a negative way which fueled the condition. as martin has sent out in his free course we are completing sleep diaries, when we go to bed, how much time to fall asleep how much time awake how much sleep window when we start our day yada yada.

i think by keeping track of that one can see on paper the progress being made, i think that people tend to only focus on the negative of a bad night and think that the good nights were a fluke or what have u

perhaps martin or scott can give feedback on this as i am new to it so dont take what i say as gospel.

cheers

spunky

[spunkyspangler]

forgot to mention about what u said about the performance pressure, i think just look at it as a record of past successes and positive reflection on every thing. just simply a record of what has happened in the past, and not looked at as u have to perform that in the present or future, simply a record nothing more nothing less

hope that helps

spunky

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